Beware with Musmys, beware with PayPal

[kyuu]

This is indeed very, very strange... I got FF too (Linux, 155.0.1), different outcome (sorry German version):

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Ah. The problem is the middleboxes on my workplace's network interfering with the traffic.

 

[Roland68]

Good afternoon,


I want to share a truly awful experience I had a few weeks ago, so people think twice before buying from this manufacturer — and especially before paying with PayPal, relying on their supposed “buyer protection”.


I purchased a MusMys C2860 Plus preamplifier directly from the manufacturer’s website, www.musmys.com. Before buying, communication was smooth: on four separate occasions I clearly stated that I wanted the unit in silver, and I even wrote it again in the order comments. What arrived? A gold unit. Incredible.


After insisting repeatedly, the manufacturer sent me what they claimed was “the necessary hardware” to convert the preamplifier from gold to silver, supposedly without any soldering required.After paying €30.48 in customs duties for this second package, I found the following:

- missing IR receiver

- missing silver feet

- several microswitches that did require soldering


I was extremely upset. When I asked for explanations about the missing parts, the soldering required, and the customs fees I had to pay, I received complete silence in return.


And now comes the most serious part: PayPal International. It’s one thing for a small Chinese manufacturer to mislead you. It’s a very different thing when a giant multinational like PayPal does the same. One of the reasons PayPal became so big was their slogan about “buyer protection”.


Well, that protection does not exist. I opened a claim with PayPal explaining everything in detail. More than 20 messages, hours wasted, photos, evidence…

What was the only solution PayPal offered?

To return the preamplifier — and pay the return shipping myself. Shipping the unit back to Hong Kong costs almost €400, practically the price of the device.

In other words: PayPal expected me to return the product, end up with nothing, and pay €400 extra just to send it back. A complete absurdity.


And of course, the manufacturer knows this.

They know the buyer will never return a defective product if doing so means losing even more money.

The seller always wins.

The buyer always loses.

PayPal enables this.


Summary:

PayPal’s buyer protection does not exist in cases like this.

If you receive a defective product, the manufacturer will not take responsibility.

PayPal will not protect you.

The buyer is the only one harmed. Anyone considering buying products from MusMys should be fully aware of what can happen.

Cheap can become expensive.


I have also opened a formal case with my local consumer protection authority, who will evaluate both the seller’s actions and PayPal’s handling of the dispute.

Both I and others in my circle have had negative experiences over the last few months or the past year or two.
This primarily concerns deliveries where the wrong item was sent—for example, trousers or T-shirts in the wrong size or color.
It has become difficult to obtain partial refunds in such cases; usually, the only solution offered is to return the item.

I know for a fact that this is partly because so many people have fraudulently exploited these refund mechanisms.
On the other hand, PayPal has to protect both buyers and sellers.

In my opinion, the seller should bear all the resulting costs in such cases, as they are solely at fault.

However, shipping costs seem to vary significantly. Shipping from Germany via insured DHL service would cost €100.99, including €500 insurance and tracking.

Personally, when shipping from other continents, I would view PayPal only as a safeguard against non-delivery.
In such a case, purchasing via AliExpress might make more sense (even when paying with PayPal), as AliExpress has become much more customer-friendly regarding these issues—especially if the chat history took place on the platform itself.
eBay is also a better point of contact for such situations.
Both platforms offer refunds and free return shipping if problems arise, but it is worth checking this—or clarifying it with the merchant and the platform—before making a high-value purchase.

 

[diddley]

Last week I got spoofed via telephone saying they were from paypal.
I hung up and immediatly removed my paypal account, I wont be doing bussiness with them.

 

[Roland68]

Last week I got spoofed via telephone saying they were from paypal.
I hung up and immediatly removed my paypal account, I wont be doing bussiness with them.

???
How is PayPal to blame if scammers impersonate their employees?
This happens with all banks and many other companies these days.
Scammers also pose as police officers—both over the phone and at people's front doors—in order to "check" and then steal valuables, cash, and credit cards. I suppose the police or the banks are to blame for that, too?

 

[SSS]

It’s threaded, but since you need to position it perfectly for it to switch on and off correctly, I assume that’s why they use epoxy at the factory. If you tighten it all the way down, it doesn’t sit square.

This post isn’t about discussing the quality of the preamp (which, in my opinion, is very good). It’s about making it clear what’s involved in buying a nearly 14 kg piece of equipment from the other side of the world, and the problems that come with it. And, of course, the complete lack of protection from PayPal.

The preamp for its price is well built as far I can see the manufacturing quality. My intention regarding the glue was that it is not easy to replace the front panel what the customer ought to do. Since I have no such unit I cannot discuss qualtity.

 

[SSS]

Last week I got spoofed via telephone saying they were from paypal.
I hung up and immediatly removed my paypal account, I wont be doing bussiness with them.

It is not Paypal responsible. Once a email address or phone number is in the internet then all kind of spams can come in. I just delete them. In very specific cases where my bank account is involved I log on to see what happened. Luckily never it was bad, same with Paypal account. Never one should click on a button in the email or on the webpage when asked for your data.

 

[diddley]

It is not Paypal responsible. Once a email address or phone number is in the internet then all kind of spams can come in. I just delete them. In very specific cases where my bank account is involved I log on to see what happened. Luckily never it was bad, same with Paypal account. Never one should click on a button in the email or on the webpage when asked for your data.

yeah they asked for my data, and last week i got al lot of robocalls blocking around 30 numbers and yesterday it was the first day quite.
But I am happy that I never coppeld my bank account to my paypall account, so there was always control over it.
And I never used paypal the last 2 years so it was an easy decision.
Internet brings much riches but it also brings alot of troubles.That can result in financial heartbreak.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

isn't musmys a low-budget/bargain copycat biz that basically steals other companies' designs?

 

[Ruediger]

Re. the Paypal problem. They aren't perfect, but the buyer protection isn't nothing either.

In clear cases with obvious things like proof of shipment/tracking or not, it works. It also worked for me with questionable vendors that got many complaints.

When goods are received and it's not a shallow case anymore, it's a grey area IMO.

 

[tonimccloud]

isn't musmys a low-budget/bargain copycat biz that basically steals other companies' designs?

Regardless of design lineage, MusMys is not operating at “budget clone” price levels — some of their units exceed €4,000.The problem I reported is unrelated to circuit topology or design originality.
It’s a logistics and QC failure: wrong item, incomplete item, defective item, and a return shipping cost higher than the product value.That’s the core issue.

 

[tonimccloud]

Re. the Paypal problem. They aren't perfect, but the buyer protection isn't nothing either.

In clear cases with obvious things like proof of shipment/tracking or not, it works. It also worked for me with questionable vendors that got many complaints.

When goods are received and it's not a shallow case anymore, it's a grey area IMO.

In clear cases buyer protection works, yes.
The problem is that my case was clear (wrong item, incomplete item, defective item) and Paypal still forced a return that costs more than the product itself.That’s not a grey area, that’s a structural failure of paypal protection system.

 

[Ruediger]

In clear cases buyer protection works, yes.
The problem is that my case was clear (wrong item, incomplete item, defective item) and Paypal still forced a return that costs more than the product itself.That’s not a grey area, that’s a structural failure of paypal protection system.

The return can be a principal requirement or even law, although it doesn't make much sense in every case. The vendor could be friendly and just send the right parts over. Or you could let it go and call it slippage.

More important is the unit itself. Maybe it's best to properly return it and get the right version shipped.

 

[Redacted]

Best practice is to buy from an established vendor in your own country, and only with a credit card*, if possible.

*If in the UK you have Section 35 protection - I've used it a couple of times.

 

[mhardy6647]

Counterfeit product?

More or less by definition.

 

[fpitas]

More or less by definition.

But is it even counterfeit when the copy is highly variable and inaccurate?

 

[Roland68]

Counterfeit product?

More or less by definition.

But is it even counterfeit when the copy is highly variable and inaccurate?

What this manufacturer (and others) offers are neither clones, fakes, nor replicas.
Some of the circuits used are partly modeled on Accuphase designs, and the external appearance mimics the original, but that is where the resemblance ends. None of Accuphase's actual technical know-how has gone into these devices. Furthermore, the quality of components and build is light-years away from the real thing.
To call this a replica, clone, or fake is an insult to every Accuphase device.

 

[sergeauckland]

Best practice is to buy from an established vendor in your own country, and only with a credit card*, if possible.

*If in the UK you have Section 35 protection - I've used it a couple of times.

I really don't understand why people still buy direct from an overseas manufacturer when the cost of a warranty return is likely to be comparable with the price of the product.

If there isn't a local representative where you can buy from and they take care of any support, as they should have in this case, then don't buy. Also, pay by Credit Card even if through PayPal.

I will only buy direct things that either won't have any support issues, like components, or if they do, I can afford to just walk away from as of trivial cost. A £10 item, so what if it doesn't work, a £100 or more item, then forget it.

S.

 

[fpitas]

I really don't understand why people still buy direct from an overseas manufacturer

In that other thread about Accuphase clones from Musmys, people were sure they were getting a great deal on Accuphase clones. I think most ended up happy. I'm not at all sure the clones were even proper clones, but well maybe that's just me. They did look nice.

 

[Redacted]

In that other thread about Accuphase clones from Musmys, people were sure they were getting a great deal on Accuphase clones. I think most ended up happy. I'm not at all sure the clones were even proper clones, but well maybe that's just me. They did look nice.

Our wariness for risk varies...

Some people just want stuff a couple of months earlier, but I can wait - it's not always a great experience to buy into the first batch of something; bleeding-ege and all that. Some may genuinely get bargains, but I have low FOMO.

My risk limit would be maybe as low as £35 these days, having been burned by both AliX (if it's imported) and eBay (UK).

I'm a bit sorry to admit that I buy a lot from Amazon, purely because of the returns policy (but even then, it can occasionally be a slight hassle with "market place" goods rather than "sold by Amazon").

I buy a lot online, because I live in MetaBooHooLand, where it's still 1986 and on the edge of the known world. I do patronise Screwfix & Toolstation a lot, because it's a 5 min drive from my home, and I can return stuff in person (contradicting my 1st statement )

 

[Haflermichi]

Individuals motivations for buying such a product differ. I can't speak to your decision making process but I'm willing to bet trying to "save money" while getting a look-alike product and hoping, or not caring if the performance matches the genuine product is a strong motivator for the majority customers of such companies.
If one makes an educated decision to take the chance on such a product, with all the information available across innumerable forums and reviews, well caveat emptor.

Expecting such companies to have a strict sense of customer service and business ethics is unrealistic. They know exactly what they're doing. If a handful of customers have issues and cannot be satisfied or made whole it represents a small fraction of their income. There will always be buyers for such products.
Such companies are under absolutely zero obligation to match or even come close to the performance of the genuine article they are copying-cloning-counterfeiting, let alone the real companies customer service policy.

The meter panel, or whatever it is, being held in place with cockeyed washers is a red flag. The glued in switches another. These are short cuts. Such companies, and their suppliers can make nearly anything including inferior IC's and capacitors with ANY markings they please. They know their victims customers are looking for such labels and markings. Would you have known such things about the innards before hand? Possibly. Possibly not. It depends of your level or risk tolerance. Again, caveat emptor.

You stated this post is not about the quality of the unit but the experience of buying it. I think the "quality" of the unit speaks for the entire experience. It's all part and parcel. Entirely separate from the PayPal issue 'm sorry it has not worked out for you but I'm not surprised. Beauty is $kin deep.
My opinion would be to just live with the color. It seems none of this would be an issue if not for that...?