Beware with Musmys, beware with PayPal

[tonimccloud]

Good afternoon,


I want to share a truly awful experience I had a few weeks ago, so people think twice before buying from this manufacturer — and especially before paying with PayPal, relying on their supposed “buyer protection”.


I purchased a MusMys C2860 Plus preamplifier directly from the manufacturer’s website, www.musmys.com. Before buying, communication was smooth: on four separate occasions I clearly stated that I wanted the unit in silver, and I even wrote it again in the order comments. What arrived? A gold unit. Incredible.


After insisting repeatedly, the manufacturer sent me what they claimed was “the necessary hardware” to convert the preamplifier from gold to silver, supposedly without any soldering required.After paying €30.48 in customs duties for this second package, I found the following:

- missing IR receiver

- missing silver feet

- several microswitches that did require soldering


I was extremely upset. When I asked for explanations about the missing parts, the soldering required, and the customs fees I had to pay, I received complete silence in return.


And now comes the most serious part: PayPal International. It’s one thing for a small Chinese manufacturer to mislead you. It’s a very different thing when a giant multinational like PayPal does the same. One of the reasons PayPal became so big was their slogan about “buyer protection”.


Well, that protection does not exist. I opened a claim with PayPal explaining everything in detail. More than 20 messages, hours wasted, photos, evidence…

What was the only solution PayPal offered?

To return the preamplifier — and pay the return shipping myself. Shipping the unit back to Hong Kong costs almost €400, practically the price of the device.

In other words: PayPal expected me to return the product, end up with nothing, and pay €400 extra just to send it back. A complete absurdity.


And of course, the manufacturer knows this.

They know the buyer will never return a defective product if doing so means losing even more money.

The seller always wins.

The buyer always loses.

PayPal enables this.


Summary:

PayPal’s buyer protection does not exist in cases like this.

If you receive a defective product, the manufacturer will not take responsibility.

PayPal will not protect you.

The buyer is the only one harmed. Anyone considering buying products from MusMys should be fully aware of what can happen.

Cheap can become expensive.


I have also opened a formal case with my local consumer protection authority, who will evaluate both the seller’s actions and PayPal’s handling of the dispute.

 

[SSS]

Bad experience indeed. For me Paypal worked always well, but I had no case to reject a product thus I don't know how the seller protection would work for me? Foreign purchases like from China I do only for up to 50 EURO so missing it does not really make me poor. Big spending with Paypal I do only in my Germany country where I may have direct access to the seller and can communicate in my language.

 

[AdrianusG]

I don't really get it!

Assuming we are talking about the colour of it's casing, AKA it's exterior Finish.
what has soldering and microswitches have to do with it in the first place?

 

[SSS]

Since I don't see on photos how the front panel is mounted and whether switches and other parts are mounted on the front panel. If so, soldering may be necessary. My opinion, front panel exchange is probably not so easy as it looks at first glance.

 

[tonimccloud]

It’s not that easy, it’s not plug-and-play. There are a lot of things that need to be moved around. The direct on/off switches have to be soldered, and so does the power on/off switch. And the IR requires soldering three cables.

 

[SSS]

Oh, oh. Switches just only glued in is not nice.

 

[respice finem]

Counterfeit product?

 

[tonimccloud]

Oh, oh. Switches just only glued in is not nice.

It’s threaded, but since you need to position it perfectly for it to switch on and off correctly, I assume that’s why they use epoxy at the factory. If you tighten it all the way down, it doesn’t sit square.

This post isn’t about discussing the quality of the preamp (which, in my opinion, is very good). It’s about making it clear what’s involved in buying a nearly 14 kg piece of equipment from the other side of the world, and the problems that come with it. And, of course, the complete lack of protection from PayPal.

 

[fpitas]

Counterfeit product?

I think everything they offer is "clones". And from what we saw in that other thread about Accuphase clones, they use the word clone very loosely.

 

[respice finem]

I think everything they offer is "clones". And from what we saw in that other thread about Accuphase clones, they use the word clone very loosely.

OTOH, I can recall a (German?) YT presentation of the Musmys without such garbage. But maybe it was just to lure buyers?
Counterfeit is still a possibility IMHO, one doesn't start a company to spoil their record - the buyer may ask directly:

MUSMYS High-End Hi-Fi Amplifiers

Shop MUSMYS high-end Hi-Fi amplifiers: Class A, Class AB, integrated amplifiers and preamplifiers, built for demanding audiophiles with dedicated support.

musmys.com

 

[fpitas]

OTOH, I can recall a (German?) YT presentation of the Musmys without such garbage. But maybe it was just to lure buyers?

Maybe. Going by the other thread, you do get something. And it looked worth the money if you're a hobbyist on a budget. But it may not be what you expected.

 

[respice finem]

Maybe. Going by the other thread, you do get something. And it looked worth the money if you're a hobbyist on a budget. But it may not be what you expected.

I've applied the final solution anyway, so to speak, by going all active. No qualms about the amp not matching the speakers and all...

 

[geol]

Their success likely stems from lobbying banks, preventing them from reimbursing fraudulent online transactions. Hence the appeal of subscribing to them. They only reimbursed my fraudulent purchases on a.b. or a.e. if I told them they hadn't shipped the package. If I say the merchandise didn't work, they did NOTHING. And on top of that, they've outsourced their call centers to countries where they barely speak your language.
They must have received orders to do this.

 

[kyuu]

The musmys website appears to not be using https, which is a big red flag for me on its own.

 

[ta240]

I think everything they offer is "clones". And from what we saw in that other thread about Accuphase clones, they use the word clone very loosely.

I wonder if expecting a company who's entire existence plays fast and loose with laws as well as what is right and wrong, to be upright when dealing with them may be a bit much to ask.

 

[fpitas]

I wonder if expecting a company who's entire existence plays fast and loose with laws as well as what is right and wrong, to be upright when dealing with them may be a bit much to ask.

An interesting question, which I can't answer. I was kind of shocked that people were getting working electronics.

 

[respice finem]

The musmys website appears to not be using https, which is a big red flag for me on its own.

The site I cited (see above, #10) has https, are there two different ones? Impostors? Very strange.

 

[kyuu]

The site I cited (see above, #10) has https, are there two different ones? Impostors? Very strange.

So it's not that it's not doing https, but that it's doing it wrong.

Also, my workplace's web filter appears to classify musmys.com as a grayware site and block access.

 

[PjV]

.

PayPal will not protect you.

...

I had 2 bad experiences with PayPal and decided to never use them again.
Some projects/sites I would like to sponsor rely on PayPal (incl. ASR)...

 

[respice finem]

View attachment 558056

View attachment 558057

So it's not that it's not doing https, but that it's doing it wrong.

Also, my workplace's web filter appears to classify musmys.com as a grayware site and block access.

This is indeed very, very strange... I got FF too (Linux, 155.0.1), different outcome (sorry German version):