Beta Test: Earful -- a hearing test App

[Muflatschki Gurkovski]

My fault, don't know why I thought it would have been the other way.
But nevertheless, is the q-value not important for the later equing?
It' s confusing me why griesingers pink noise with q=5 sounds smoother than earful's pink noise even at 0.5 and I am unsure how to apply the determined curve/ eq-values to equalizer-apps.
I mean, it seems the q-factor is an ambiguous term here?

 

[pkane]

My fault, don't know why I thought it would have been the other way.
But nevertheless, is the q-value not important for the later equing?
It' s confusing me why griesingers pink noise with q=5 sounds smoother than earful's pink noise even at 0.5 and I am unsure how to apply the determined curve/ eq-values to equalizer-apps.
I mean, it seems the q-factor is an ambiguous term here?

Q factor is just the bandwidth of the filter used to limit the frequencies of the pink or white noise, centered on the frequency you're trying to measure. Don't know what Griesinger is using, but that's what Earful is doing. There's really no effect on EQ unless you use too small a Q value that allows a wide swath of frequencies to interfere with the one you're measuring. Certainly Q=5 seems reasonable to me.

To be clear: this Q value has nothing to do with Q of the filters you’ll use later in your EQ settings.

 

[Muflatschki Gurkovski]

I tested the sound with different q-values by comparing earful's with sonic focus' and got it similiar to each other with q~1.2.
So sonic focus with q=5 matches earful's q~1.2, is that value ok or do you any expect problems here?

 

[pkane]

I tested the sound with different q-values by comparing earful's with sonic focus' and got it similiar to each other with q~1.2.
So sonic focus with q=5 matches earful's q~1.2, is that value ok or do you any expect problems here?

I don't expect that much trouble at Q=1 or 2. Pick Q that makes it easier for you to identify the difference. Smaller Q value will sound more like noise, medium Q values will sound like a few tones mixed together, high Q values will sound more like a single tone. Single tone of higher Q values will give you a more precise response to the exact frequency you're measuring. Smaller Q values will cover many more frequencies below and above the frequency you're measuring. This can make it easier to detect the differences, but also makes the actual frequency of the difference less precise, more spread-out.

Here's the comparison, this is directly from Earful using different Q settings at 1.35kHz:

 

[Muflatschki Gurkovski]

Hmm, does q=1.2 not affect a too large range of frequencies then?
The choose of a distinct frequency band shouldn't be thwarted by that.

 

[pkane]

Hmm, does q=1.2 not affect a too large range of frequencies then?
The choose of a distinct frequency band shouldn't be thwarted by that.

I’d keep Q larger than 1.2 but that’s not something I’ve tested to know if this makes a real audible difference. Give it a try at 1.2 and then at 5 and see if the curves are sufficiently different to worry about it.

 

[DerRoland]

Hi Paul,

very interesting app, was a pleasure to test my capability .

I noticed that at higher frequencies very little movements of my head makes great differences - don't expect the influence that much.

Here are my results (age 53, 4m distance to my loudspeaker, separate left / right ear, the other side was protected with a earplug, ground noise ~ 25 dBA, PC connected via hdmi to av receiver, set to 0dB, reference measurement -20dBFS=80dBA):

 

[pkane]

Hi Paul,

very interesting app, was a pleasure to test my capability .

I noticed that at higher frequencies very little movements of my head makes great differences - don't expect the influence that much.

Here are my results (age 53, 4m distance to my loudspeaker, separate left / right ear, the other side was protected with a earplug, ground noise ~ 25 dBA, PC connected via hdmi to av receiver, set to 0dB, reference measurement -20dBFS=80dBA):


View attachment 127641
View attachment 127642

Higher frequencies in a room can certainly cause problems with position — moving an inch or two can cause a difference in cancellations, comb filtering and other effects. At higher frequencies, audibility threshold is better tested with headphones that don’t have these problems.

 

[DerRoland]

I'm now confused about my / the common hearing weakness.

Should it be added to the personal house curve, but 30dB extra at higher frequencies couldn't be right. What do I here missunterstand?

edit: attach iso226 curve.

 

[pkane]

I'm now confused about my / the common hearing weakness.

Should it be added to the personal house curve, but 30dB extra at higher frequencies couldn't be right. What do I here missunterstand?

No, you don’t want to EQ speakers to your lowest hearing threshold— unless that’s the normal level you always listen at (very unlikely, as you’ll rarely hear anything).

The ear responds differently to different sound levels, and at normal listening volume, it’s much more flat than at lower levels. Look up Fletcher Munson curves for a good demonstration of this.

 

[DerRoland]

Thank you for your explanation. Saw the Munson curves in this thread allready.

Edit: Here is an interesting discussion about the adaption of a loudness curve:
device-for-equal-loudness-fletcher-munson-curve-do-any-speakers-adapt-to-this

 

[jae]

Can you add a button to sweep and/or automatically cycle through all the recorded test points (with the ability to control for how long each point is played for the latter)?

 

[jae]

 

[pkane]

See here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...t-earful-a-hearing-test-app.14863/post-669197

Generally, you may have installed Earful as Administrator or started it as Admin the first time, but then trying to run it as a regular user. The setting files created by Administrator account can't be overwritten by a regular Windows user. Either change permissions on the folder and all files under it: C:\ProgramData\Earful or try starting Earful as Administrator (not recommended).

 

[jae]

See here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...t-earful-a-hearing-test-app.14863/post-669197

Generally, you may have installed Earful as Administrator or started it as Admin the first time, but then trying to run it as a regular user. The setting files created by Administrator account can't be overwritten by a regular Windows user. Either change permissions on the folder and all files under it: C:\ProgramData\Earful or try starting Earful as Administrator (not recommended).

No idea why I can't reproduce this problem. It's happened to me 3 times, the first time I figured it could have been my machine because I had some atypical UAC/admin settings and policies. But I tried on two completely fresh machines with completely clean windows installs (single-user, default UAC settings etc), and also another person I asked to try reported the same. I was thinking maybe it was running as admin after the first install after accepting UAC prompt and first launch from the installer although I never explicitly ran as admin except to diagnose the problem. Between uninstalling/reinstalling multiple times and sorting the permissions it resolved so it's not a big deal.

What I am really wondering if the following is intended behaviour? (short video clip): http://silph.co/earful.mp4

Are the settings supposed to be reflected in the UI at launch? Plus I would like to be rid of the warning prompt. I doubled checked and it has full permissions, and regardless of permissions, it is always loading a fresh config when I assume it is rechecking devices/drivers, which of course is overwritten when it is closed.

 

[pkane]

No idea why I can't reproduce this problem. It's happened to me 3 times, the first time I figured it could have been my machine because I had some atypical UAC/admin settings and policies. But I tried on two completely fresh machines with completely clean windows installs (single-user, default UAC settings etc), and also another person I asked to try reported the same. I was thinking maybe it was running as admin after the first install after accepting UAC prompt and first launch from the installer although I never explicitly ran as admin except to diagnose the problem. Between uninstalling/reinstalling multiple times and sorting the permissions it resolved so it's not a big deal.

What I am really wondering if the following is intended behaviour? (short video clip): http://silph.co/earful.mp4

Are the settings supposed to be reflected in the UI at launch? Plus I would like to be rid of the warning prompt. I doubled checked and it has full permissions, and regardless of permissions, it is always loading a fresh config when I assume it is rechecking devices/drivers, which of course is overwritten when it is closed.

Looks like you're having problems with writing the settings file for Earful. Could it be an antivirus or something similar locking the file for scanning? I'm guessing here. The video behavior is absolutely not the way it should behave. After the first time you see the pop-up warning and accept it, it should save this into the settings file and never ask again. Look in the settings file for this setting (it should be set to true):

<acknowldeged>true</acknowldeged>

If you don't find it or it's set to false, just edit it and change it so it's as above and save the settings file. And looking at it now, the setting is misspelled, but that's not an issue when Earful reads it, only when humans do so if you add this, add it misspelled, as shown above.

 

[jae]

Looks like you're having problems with writing the settings file for Earful. Could it be an antivirus or something similar locking the file for scanning? I'm guessing here. The video behavior is absolutely not the way it should behave. After the first time you see the pop-up warning and accept it, it should save this into the settings file and never ask again. Look in the settings file for this setting (it should be set to true):

<acknowldeged>true</acknowldeged>

If you don't find it or it's set to false, just edit it and change it so it's as above and save the settings file. And looking at it now, the setting is misspelled, but that's not an issue when Earful reads it, only when humans do so if you add this, add it misspelled, as shown above.

Everything seems to be written fine to the config file OK. For example in the video around 1 minute in I changed <fromFreq> to "333" and it showed up in the text editor when the program was closed. It was not shown but <acknowldeged>true</acknowldeged> is also being set properly, along with the other settings like changing audio device, tone type, levels at each frequency etc... all of it is getting written to the file on close. So it's more as if it cannot read the file and just reloading default values in the UI, which of course overwrites the entire config to default if Earful is closed gracefully again without changing anything. <acknowldeged>true</acknowldeged> always get written upon close even after it "resets" to whatever the values in the UI because I must accept the prompt every time on starting it, so the fact that it's asking for it every time must mean the file is not getting read properly? It prompts even if <acknowldeged>true</acknowldeged> is in the file. I double checked all the perms, everything is checked off, running as admin also results in the same behaviour.

I don't think anything could be interfering with it. I run no AV or any software that could be a problem for it. This is also a clean windows install as of a week or two ago, apart from a couple of games, firefox, and some routine software I have changed nothing

 

[pkane]

A member asked me to improve the keyboard control while using Earful. Here's an update specifically for this purpose: v1.0.13

Changes in 1.0.13​

• Added: keyboard accelerators when the chart is clicked (in focus):
  Up-arrow/Down-arrow to change volume,
  Left-arrow/Right-arrow to change frequency,
  PgUp/PgDown to change volume by 5x the normal setting (in dB), and
  Spacebar to stop or start playback

Enjoy!

 

[MilesH]

Here's mine. Noticeable difference L&R at 8000Hz!

 

[Manukatche]

Hello

I'm a 41 yo man who is hard of hearing from birth. See my pro curves:

I've tried Earful in order to make a Hi-Res audiogramme for test and seems to be quiet different :
( I have to say I don't really understood how to calibrate the hardware )

Right

Left

There is a bug about simultaneous curves display:

Right mode data set 1:

Left data set 1:

I made this test with windows 11 laptop, Fiio Q3 DAC/AMP, IEMs ER2SE Studio, 3.5mm asymetric output and custom tips.

Can someone please explain me how I have to do in order to calibrate the hardware ? I have a tiny brain...