Beta Test: Earful -- a hearing test App

[Muflatschki Gurkovski]

if we have a perfect reference, and then create our personal equal loudness threshold curve for it,
and then do the same for a second, imperfect source,
we can then aply the diference of both those curves to the second, imperfect source and have a perfect copy (in theory; we imply here that we can make perfect threshold curves) of the reference FR.
the ISO is not relevant here at all, since we are using our own threshold

You missunderstood my assertion, I mentioned the iso curves just to show the difference of human's 0phon equal loudness curve and others like 40/80phon suitable for listening to music.
Everybody has more than ONE equal loudness curve, the course of the curve depends on the level of loudness.

 

[jae]

That's a file access permission problem, and that's exactly why your settings are never saved. Somehow you don't have access to write to the Earful folder under ProgramData. Open C:\ProgramData in Windows Explorer, select Earful folder, and delete it. Then re-install Earful.

I did exactly that and it resulted in that error. Right now I uninstalled yet again, deleted, rebooted, and reinstalled, and the error when closing seems to be gone, however I am still getting the warning nag after accepting it once.

By default all levels are at -60 upon opening the first time. If I change one of the values on the slider, then close the program and open the .settings file, the change is reflected in <data> so it seems it can write the file fine. In this case I changed one point to -120 just to test and closed the program. When I reopen earful, I get the warning again. And the graph shows -60 despite the file still having the config value of -120 before AND after earful was opened. If I close earful again without making any changes and reopen the config, config is set back to -60. So the changes to the config are reverting to default or rather whatever is displayed on UI when it is closed. As it is always opening with default settings displayed in the UI (despite the contrary in the config), opening andclosing the program without doing anything will always make it revert to default settings, and opening the program is always resulting in the settings (in the UI) showing up as default).

 

[pkane]

I did exactly that and it resulted in that error. Right now I uninstalled yet again, deleted, rebooted, and reinstalled, and the error when closing seems to be gone, however I am still getting the warning nag after accepting it once.

By default all levels are at -60 upon opening the first time. If I change one of the values on the slider, then close the program and open the .settings file, the change is reflected in <data> so it seems it can write the file fine. In this case I changed one point to -120 just to test and closed the program. When I reopen earful, I get the warning again. And the graph shows -60 despite the file still having the config value of -120 before AND after earful was opened. If I close earful again without making any changes and reopen the config, config is set back to -60. So the changes to the config are reverting to default or rather whatever is displayed on UI when it is closed. As it is always opening with default settings displayed in the UI (despite the contrary in the config), opening andclosing the program without doing anything will always make it revert to default settings, and opening the program is always resulting in the settings (in the UI) showing up as default).

There's something on your computer that doesn't allow Earful to write files into its own folder. You'll need to change the permissions on the folder to allow this, or try running Earful "As Administrator"

 

[pkane]

my headphones (with EQ) matches Harman's target by 90%, so i would just like to generate filters (on top of the already existing EQ) to accommodate for my equal loudness results.

Remember that if you measured your threshold of hearing with Earful using headphones, the threshold that you measured itself includes the frequency response of your headphones.

Also, correcting for threshold of hearing is probably not the right thing to do with headphones, because you normally don't listen to music at such a low level where you can barely hear anything. Equal loudness curves at normal hearing level should make a better target.

 

[jae]

There's something on your computer that doesn't allow Earful to write files into its own folder. You'll need to change the permissions on the folder to allow this, or try running Earful "As Administrator"

I'm really not sure what could be causing this then, I will try on another machine tomorrow. I also already tried both installing as administrator and also running it as administrator and had the same result on two different occasions.

I checked and permissions and it seems fine, but if it did not have write permission how would it be able to change the config file upon closing as I described? It also has no problem creating a new default config file upon opening if I delete the existing config, it creates it just fine upon close.

 

[pkane]

I'm really not sure what could be causing this then, I will try on another machine tomorrow. I also already tried both installing as administrator and also running it as administrator and had the same result on two different occasions.

I checked and permissions and it seems fine, but if it did not have write permission how would it be able to change the config file upon closing as I described? It also has no problem creating a new default config file upon opening if I delete the existing config, it creates it just fine upon close.

I'll see if I can figure out what might be causing this for the next version.

 

[abdo123]

Remember that if you measured your threshold of hearing with Earful using headphones, the threshold that you measured itself includes the frequency response of your headphones.

Also, correcting for threshold of hearing is probably not the right thing to do with headphones, because you normally don't listen to music at such a low level where you can barely hear anything. Equal loudness curves at normal hearing level should make a better target.

Yeah I understand, I did the equal loudness test as well.

I just don’t know how to use that data from that point on.

 

[pkane]

Yeah I understand, I did the equal loudness test as well.

I just don’t know how to use that data from that point on.

Again, depends on what you're trying to do. If you want to correct your headphones to sound flat relative to the equal-loudness curve, then you just need to load the curve generated with Earful into REW, invert it. Then set the desired room curve to flat, and generate EQ filters to flatten the inverse equal-loudness curve.

If you already have some EQ generated for a specific target, then you may want to measure the equal-loudness curve with the existing EQ applied. This will tell you how far from flat the frequency range sounds with your current EQ settings. You can then correct in REW for that difference, and add the resulting filter settings to existing EQ.

 

[abdo123]

Again, depends on what you're trying to do. If you want to correct your headphones to sound flat relative to the equal-loudness curve, then you just need to load the curve generated with Earful into REW, invert it. Then set the desired room curve to flat, and generate EQ filters to flatten the inverse equal-loudness curve.

If you already have some EQ generated for a specific target, then you may want to measure the equal-loudness curve with the existing EQ applied. This will tell you how far from flat the frequency range sounds with your current EQ settings. You can then correct in REW for that difference, and add the resulting filter settings to existing EQ.

This have been very insightful, thank you very much!

Is it intentional that the reference in equal loudness is playing at -60 dbfs?

 

[pkane]

This have been very insightful, thank you very much!

Is it intentional that the reference in equal loudness is playing at -60 dbfs?

No, that's just the default setting, deliberately set very low to keep equipment (and ears) safe. You can change Start Vol to the desired reference level.

 

[abdo123]

No, that's just the default setting, deliberately set very low to keep equipment (and ears) safe. You can change Start Vol to the desired reference level.

What do you recommend? I find it difficult to EQ 20Hz to 1kHz, if the reference 1kHz is playing at -60.

 

[pkane]

What do you recommend? I find it difficult to EQ 20Hz to 1kHz, if the reference 1kHz is playing at -60.

Set the reference to your normal listening level with a 1kHz tone.

 

[abdo123]

Set the reference to your normal listening level with a 1kHz tone.

I don't really get this because this is not really an analog volume knob that you just set at one point and leave it like that. The digital level changes depending on the material you're playing.

 

[pkane]

I don't really get this because this is not really an analog volume knob that you just set at one point and leave it like that. The digital level changes depending on the material you're playing.

Equal loudness curves are related to the SPL level of 1kHz signal. If you are comfortable with about 80dBSPL level, then you'll tend to adjust volume control on all material you're playing to about that same level, and that's the reference level you'll want to measure the equal loudness curve. In other words, find a level where you feel comfortable and use that as the reference.

 

[m_g_s_g]

There's something on your computer that doesn't allow Earful to write files into its own folder.

I often find myself fighting against Microsoft‘s recently introduced anti ransom protection...

 

[pkane]

This fix took a little longer as I was unable to test the change for a week or so. Here's the updated Earful with better two-device EQ sound separation. Let me know if that's still not enough. Also fixed the problem when switching signal type between Sine/Warble/White or Pink noise while the sounds are playing, and adjusted levels for each to match better at 1kHz:

https://distortaudio.org/earful.html

 

[Muflatschki Gurkovski]

Sorry for for the late reply, a small overlap remains sometimes, but it occurs irregularly.
Weirdly sometimes an overlap and sometimes a small gap, strange behaviour.
like I have already recommended, a small gap instead of a perfect transient is sufficient for the intended case.
Avoiding the overlap is crucial here, because otherwise it will rise the Volume for a short amount of time and distract the brain.
Beside from that, I realised putting on and off the headphones for loudness comparison is more viable for me, although Griesinger told me the opposite.
For "open-fit" earbuds like the apple earpod (non pro) with near-zero dampening the two device-method is the way to go, of course.

Why differs the sound of your chosen noise so much from griesingers in dgsonicfocus app despite the same adjusted q?
It sounds much more "noisy" and sharper while griesingers is more smooth and "swooshier" (hope, thats the right description).
A "q" near 1 gets it closer to griesingers noise sound with a "q" near 5, but even then the main-difference is noticeable.

 

[pkane]

Sorry for for the late reply, a small overlap remains sometimes, but it occurs irregularly.
Weirdly sometimes an overlap and sometimes a small gap, strange behaviour.
like I have already recommended, a small gap instead of a perfect transient is sufficient for the intended case.
Avoiding the overlap is crucial here, because otherwise it will rise the Volume for a short amount of time and distract the brain.
Beside from that, I realised putting on and off the headphones for loudness comparison is more viable for me, although Griesinger told me the opposite.
For "open-fit" earbuds like the apple earpod (non pro) with near-zero dampening the two device-method is the way to go, of course.

Why differs the sound of your chosen noise so much from griesingers in dgsonicfocus app despite the same adjusted q?
It sounds much more "noisy" and sharper while griesingers is more smooth and "swooshier" (hope, thats the right description).
A "q" near 1 gets it closer to griesingers noise sound with a "q" near 5, but even then the main-difference is noticeable.

Don't really know, since I don't know what Griesinger is using for noise, or his Q calculation. Try adjusting Q to larger bandwidth to see if becomes smoother.

 

[Muflatschki Gurkovski]

Grieinger wrote:
I chose Q=5 for our app to get a little better accuracy.

But apart from that, earful seems to behave faulty referred to the q-setting, because a smaller q-value should normally result in a sound more similiar to a sinesweep, instead it is doing the opposite.
???
Edit:

 

[pkane]

Grieinger wrote:
I chose Q=5 for our app to get a little better accuracy.

But apart from that, earful seems to behave faulty referred to the q-setting, because a smaller q-value should normally result in a sound more similiar to a sinesweep, instead it is doing the opposite.
???

No. Smaller Q results in a much wider bandwidth, and therefore more noise-like sound. Larger Q values, say 10 or above, should sound more like a single tone. Here's a calculator to demonstrate this: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-bandwidth.htm