• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Beta Test: DISTORT - audibility of distortions

maty

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
4,596
Likes
3,160
Location
Tarragona (Spain)
JRiver MC v26.0.103 64 bits

JRiver-MC-DSP-VST.png
 

maty

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
4,596
Likes
3,160
Location
Tarragona (Spain)
You know, in my very optimized Win10 64 bits to play multimedia, JR MC 64 bits sound much better than Foobar2000 32 bits.

I need a 64 bit compilation. And I will pay for it, without any doubt, unless I have to mortgage for it ;)
 

Balle Clorin

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,284
Likes
1,184
I cannot get it to work. the tones are not altered at all, what am I doing wrong?
I pick a file. click on harmonictsand then hit the play button.. but the tone is still playing undistorted
Installed latest version, and restarted PC.

1650024127521.png
 
OP
pkane

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,630
Likes
10,203
Location
North-East
I cannot get it to work. the tones are not altered at all, what am I doing wrong?
I pick a file. click on harmonictsand then hit the play button.. but the tone is still playing undistorted
Installed latest version, and restarted PC.

View attachment 200073

I don't see any distortion selected. You need to select some type and level of distortion, first.

Set the Even/Odd back to 0, then dial in the desired distortion by using the two sliders on the right to dial in some variable/adjustable distortion, or click on Custom... and then enter the desired levels of harmonic distortion.
 

Balle Clorin

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
1,284
Likes
1,184
so I have to select CUSTOM, I did not understand that. Thought I had to select distortion when markin gEVEN and ODD and giving a value.
Works now. Many thanks
1650024745388.png
 
OP
pkane

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,630
Likes
10,203
Location
North-East
so I have to select CUSTOM, I did not understand that. Thoght I dis select distiorion when markin EVEN and ODD and giveing a value.
Works now. Many thanks
View attachment 200074

The odd/even controls let you adjust the relative strength of odd and even harmonics (for example, you can turn off all odd harmonics completely). But the actual harmonic structure still needs to be selected using Custom... or the sliders to the right of the plot.
 

audiofun

Active Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
242
Likes
243
If you add even order harmonics, they will produce asymmetric waveforms, and thereby produce a DC component in the resulting signal.
that's true. but the software should have removed the DC after that.
users can easily generate full level DC without even knowing it, and break their equipments.
 

pma

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
4,591
Likes
10,727
Location
Prague
Even in such understandable cases, there is/should be an option to eliminate DC. DC is a problem in ABX test.
Talking about amplifiers, they must be protected against DC in their design!!!
 

audiofun

Active Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
242
Likes
243
Even in such understandable cases, there is/should be an option to eliminate DC. DC is a problem in ABX test.
Talking about amplifiers, they must be protected against DC in their design!!!
exactly. dc is audible .
there's menu to add a lpf to remove ultrasound, but there's no hpf to remove DC.
 

pma

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
4,591
Likes
10,727
Location
Prague
Even if your amp is ac coupled, the DC in the file leads to audible click at the beginning, so ABX is then invalid.
 
OP
pkane

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,630
Likes
10,203
Location
North-East
that's true. but the software should have removed the DC after that.
users can easily generate full level DC without even knowing it, and break their equipments.
Let me know what settings you were using. DISTORT will use pink noise to equalize levels and to remove DC between different settings.
 

audiofun

Active Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
242
Likes
243
Let me know what settings you were using. DISTORT will use pink noise to equalize levels and to remove DC between different settings.
as long as even harmonics is selected, it will have DC.

and yes, output wave form contains dc.

same to your vst plugin.

Screen Shot 2022-05-20 at 9.57.27.png
 

mocenigo

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1,274
Likes
1,034
Harmonic content is a side-effect of the non-linear transfer function applied to the signal in time domain. I don't see how it can control phase of individual harmonics, but I'll do some research.

It is the sign of the term with the corresponding exponent, if you expand the transfer function as a taylor series.
So, for instance f(x)=c_1 x+ c_2 x^2 and c_1 >0 has positive H2 if c_2 > 0 and negative H2 if c_2 <0, and so on.
 

mocenigo

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
1,274
Likes
1,034
DeltaWave beta-test was a huge success, thanks to all of you! This new beta-test is again, only for the brave and the curious :)

Introducing DISTORT - free software designed to help determine the audibility thresholds of various audio distortions with your own equipment, at your own pace, with your own music. Some basic instructions and installer download are available on the Distort web page:

https://distortaudio.org

Just like DeltaWave, DISTORT runs on 64-bit Windows and likes lots of memory to process larger files and faster CPU, if you like a faster response.

The basic idea is to shape the desired harmonic and noise floor distortion and then to apply it to any piece of recorded music. You can play the distorted file directly, using the play button, or save it as a 32-bit WAV and play it using your preferred player software. See if you can spot 1% THD!

My hope is that DISTORT can help answer some burning audio questions and help to dispel some persistent audio myths:
  • Is SINAD of 110dB audible?
  • Is THD below 1% audible?
  • Do even harmonics sound better than odd?
  • Do higher-order harmonics sound less pleasant?
  • Does SET distortion really sound good?
  • At what level does the noise floor or the mains frequency become audible?
  • What kind of music is improved by lower THD? Even harmonics? Lower noise floor?
  • etc., etc., etc.
My plan is to build more distortion generators into DISTORT over time, from different filter types to jitter, to variable group delay and some others. All with the same goal in mind: to determine at what levels these distortions become audible. Any suggestions on which ones you'd like to see first are welcome.

If you discover an error or a crash, a short description of what you were doing, a screen shot, and/or a log file (available from Help->Logging->View Log menu) would be very helpful. Please give DISTORT at try, and as always, I welcome all feedback and suggestions!

View attachment 40858

If you want I can try to make a macOS version - it all depends on whether you want to share the sources.
 
OP
pkane

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,630
Likes
10,203
Location
North-East
It is the sign of the term with the corresponding exponent, if you expand the transfer function as a taylor series.
So, for instance f(x)=c_1 x+ c_2 x^2 and c_1 >0 has positive H2 if c_2 > 0 and negative H2 if c_2 <0, and so on.

Actually, harmonics phase can be specified exactly at any specific frequency of the test tone. I’ve built this since I posted it, but for a different purpose. The same procedure can be used in DISTORT, except it’s almost twice as slow as what I have there now, so I didn’t want to make the software more complicated and slower in use. Taylor series is not used in DISTORT, by the way.
 
OP
pkane

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,630
Likes
10,203
Location
North-East
If you want I can try to make a macOS version - it all depends on whether you want to share the sources.

Probably not yet, as it’ll become difficult to make changes. Maybe once I feel the version is more stable. There are also libraries that are used for audio, charting, and computation that may not be easy to swap out or replace without major surgery. But thanks for the offer!
 
OP
pkane

pkane

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
5,630
Likes
10,203
Location
North-East
as long as even harmonics is selected, it will have DC.

and yes, output wave form contains dc.

same to your vst plugin.

View attachment 207622

This may just be a measurement artifact. Here's the PK Harmonic VST plugin with significant distortion dialed-in, playing 1kHz sine wave, showing no DC:

1653517141075.png


1653517219399.png


Same settings used in DISTORT to play a 1kHz signal, also showing no DC:
1653517693604.png
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom