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Beta Test: DISTORT - audibility of distortions

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Which is why this test was designed to test for both.
This test asks people if they could hear a difference, but it doesn't test if they can.

I think what amir would like to see is to require someone to ABX the highest and lowest distortion samples a few times before starting the test. And if they can't do it, throw out their data, or simply terminate the test.
 
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pkane

pkane

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Thread Starter #243
This test asks people if they could hear a difference, but it doesn't test if they can.

I think what amir would like to see is to require someone to ABX the highest and lowest distortion samples a few times before starting the test. And if they can't do it, throw out their data, or simply terminate the test.
The test wasn't meant to be a rigorous study. For a real discrimination test, the samples would have to be fully randomized at each trial, or the number of samples would have to be made a lot larger. Both are hard to do in an informal, internet bind test.
 

Balle Clorin

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Averages based on decades of research are not meaningless. They may not be precisely correct for every individual, but give some point of reference. I think people in this forum are interested in how physics relates to human perception.
How much warmer does twice as warm feel like ?? in F, C or K? the whole concept of twice as load is meaningless to me. What I can relate to is 0-1-3 db increased level.... since I experience it first hand by measurements. Use the dB scale that everyone with a dB meter or phone app(calibrated) can relate to
 

KaiserSoze

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How much warmer does twice as warm feel like ?? in F, C or K? the whole concept of twice as load is meaningless to me. What I can relate to is 0-1-3 db increased level.... since I experience it first hand by measurements. Use the dB scale that everyone with a dB meter or phone app(calibrated) can relate to
Absolutely. The notion of one sound being "twice as loud" as another is absurd. Elsewhere I wrote a comment where I pointed this out, but I've forgotten what the specific topic was and where that post is. Oh, I think it was a post concerned with the interpretation of the equal-loudness curves. This has been a popular notion for very many years, but it does not make any sense at all. As you point out, it would make sense to talk about one sound being 3 dB, etc., louder than another, but only if you are practiced at making such judgements. At a stretch, it might make sense to say, on the basis that a 3 dB difference in power is a 2:1 ratio, that a sound that is 3 dB louder than another sounds twice as loud. But of course this isn't what people mean when they say that one sound is twice as loud as another. The notion that a sound that is 10 dB louder than another sounds "twice as loud" is an utterly meaningless notion, amounting to nothing more than jabberwocky. Not the least bit insightful. People need to stop repeating this notion, and in general stop repeating stuff just because they read it somewhere.
 
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I think you're taking it a bit too literally. To say that 10 dB is approximately twice as loud according to the average person at a typical volume is not "utterly meaningless."
 
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This is the way the concept of "twice as loud" works. I don't have the exact history in mind, but this is almost certainly a reasonable facsimile:
A couple of people or groups discuss the concept.

One person or group argues that loudness is like beauty, and the idea of quantifying twice as much is absurd. Beauty and loudness are in the eye and ear of the beholder. It is completely subjective.
Another person or group argues... well, we all have a good sense of "twice" and we can estimate "twice" other measurable quantities, such as distance or volume (e.g. of liquid), pretty well. Loudness is more like volume (pun intended) than beauty.

They argue back and forth (x N), but using words, logic, examples and analogies leads nowhere. Finally someone decides to test it. They get a large group of people and using an accepted method (back then, probably a calibrated reference sound with the method of adjustment; less used now) they determine what each person (alone) estimates to be "twice as loud".

If the results yield a broad uniform distribution (similar number between 4-6dB as between 9-11dB), then it's more like beauty and nonsensical to measure and report. If, on the other hand, the results give a narrow gaussian (bell-curve) distribution, where most people have a similar value, except for a very small number of outliers, then the concept makes sense.

The concept makes sense. I don't have the exact history ready for citation, but the idea works for various, measurable quantities that we estimate with sensory input. It would also (probably*) work with temerature:warmth/coldness IF! set up properly. Getting stuck on °F, °C or °K is avoided with proper design*.

* willing to discuss further, if needed.
 
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pozz

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@pkane Can Distort generate subharmonics? Can it notch out all of the original so the user can listen to distortion only?
 
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pkane

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@pkane Can Distort generate subharmonics? Can it notch out all of the original so the user can listen to distortion only?
The released version of Distort doesn't do that. A version I have been working internally, does, but only for test signals (not for music).

1598876408945.png

DeltaWave can do that today. You'll just need to feed it the original and the distorted versions and it will produce a delta that you can analyze and listen to.

Regards,

-Paul
 

maty

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Any news about a Distort as VSTplugin 64 bits?

You know, to emulate a tube amp - in a good soft player as JRMC 64-bits - with only H2 and H3 and nothing else. Amplitude and phase, with the possibility of negative.

I would pay for it.
 
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pkane

pkane

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I would pay for it.
Would 50% of a price of a high-end tube amp be reasonable? Something like $3K USD? ;) I can even add an option to lift veils and to fine tune microdynamics, but that'll have to be purchased separately. :D

Seriously, I've looked at VST and I can certainly build a plugin to configure harmonics. But there are already a large number of VST plugins that simulate various tube preamps and amps. Does the world need another one?
 
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maty

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With a quality recording these VSTs tend to make the sound worse. At first they are pleasant because they tend to cover other problems.

The better sound I got, the less I can handle VST tube emulators.

I only want to add H2 and H3, nothing else. With some kind of recordings.
 
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