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Deleted member 24508

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To see if they are competent.




That's the kind of silliness that just illustrates what you don't understand.




Do it with proper controls and you'll become an overnight star.

Until then, you don't seem to be engaging in a good faith effort to actually meaningfully engage. Continued insistence on claims with no evidence and ignoring the substance of the responses you are getting will lead you to ban-land.
Sorry still don't get your argument if ALL days sound the same why test them, it will sound the same and by your reasoning if it sounds the same it MUST measure the same, why bother.
 

Phorize

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I’m going to focus on how you are going about this rather than the substance of your questions, which whether you intend them to or not are bordering on the vexatious.

I have been extremely clear and specific about what I’m saying, yet your responses do not engage with what I am saying at all, but instead focus on developing tangential arguement from semantics rather than substance/produce non sequitur points and falsely summarise what I have said.

This approach is often used by someone who is arguing in bad faith and for whatever reason is using logical fallacy and theatrics to give the illusion on a discussion, and often to convince their own side that ‘they won’ because they were able generate a large amount of words. It’s not uncommon for people to do what you are doing in good faith because they haven’t been taught to think critically. I have no idea what your intentions are of course, however, a persistent refusal to engage with what is being said and the persistent presentation of false dichotomy, straw man and non sequitur argument are often a good sign of a bad faith actor. If that is the case then I expect you to declare victory very soon,

So I say again;:

The scientific consensus in all related matters should lead us to conclude that electronics don’t have a sound if well engineered. The total lack of evidence in the form of controlled tests showing that people can detect even 00s of dbs of difference supports this rather than undermines it. Case closed unless evidence of either a change in the scientific assumptions triggered by a new theory or empirical evidence (from a controlled trial) is produced.

You may wish to notice that I have made specific efforts to ‘iron man’ your argument-ie by spending time checking what you mean etc. This is because. I’m not looking to point score or prove you wrong, but to understand what you arguement is.

So far I am taking your argument to be that you can hear differences between dacs in a feat of hearing that any engineer or scientist would regard as impossible...

It’s
No if all days sound the same why bother testing them, they all sound the same, test over. I'm serious.

The mundane answer to that is that we only know that dacs sound the same because we know how they perform, and under controlled conditions what people can actually discern.

You are right in inferring that we aren’t going to learn that transparent dacs have a sound by testing them though. Mind you, despite the huge proportion of electronics that are shown to be transparent, it is helpful to see that good engineering companies like Chord still sell products that no engineer with self respect would put their name to, and get away with it because their customers don’t expect measurements and assume that chord will do the right thing when no one is looking.

I suppose the broader reason is the same reason we would undertake any area of investigation. For the sake of it, because we can. It’s pure measurebating, but some of us find fun.

Speakers are a different story-there is a lot of over priced crap out there and it’s easy to end up buying it accident, especially with the legion YouTube pundits generating a whole field of pseudo-knowledge optimised to empty peoples wallets.
 
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Deleted member 24508

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It’s


The mundane answer to that is that we only know that dacs sound the same because we know how they perform, and under controlled conditions what people can actually discern.

You are right in inferring that we aren’t going to learn that transparent dacs have a sound by testing them though. Mind you, despite the huge proportion of electronics that are shown to be transparent, it is helpful to see that good engineering companies like Chord still sell products that no engineer with self respect would put their name to, and get away with it because their customers don’t expect measurements and assume that chord will do the right thing when no one is looking.

I suppose the broader reason is the same reason we would undertake any area of investigation. For the sake of it, because we can. It’s pure measurebating, but some of us find fun.

Speakers are a different story-there is a lot of over priced crap out there and it’s easy to end up buying it accident, especially with the legion YouTube pundits generating a whole field of pseudo-knowledge optimised to empty peoples wallets.
But according to you all days sound the same.
 

BDWoody

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But according to you all days sound the same.

No one is saying that...and that's an example of what I was talking about.

If strawman arguments are all you have, you don't need to keep posting.

A week off this thread to do more reading.
 

Phorize

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But according to you all days sound the same.
Ok, now it’s established that you are more likely to acting in bad faith than not. Goodbye.
 

RoyB

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So far I am taking your argument to be that you can hear differences between dacs in a feat of hearing that any engineer or scientist would regard as impossible...

"Sometime a cigar is just a cigar".......I hear a difference.....
 

Phorize

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"Sometime a cigar is just a cigar".......I hear a difference.....

Let’s have some intellectual honesty here; you perceive a difference that could be attributable to absolutely anything, or not exist at all. It takes controlled conditions to be able to assert anything else.
 

Phorize

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........Something about bumblebees comes to mind......
Here we go again. Off to have a discussion with an adult.
 

dougi

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https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-stream/
new ifi Zen Stream
good software setup-features; good set ins-outs
Not real cheap, but plug 'n play; a bit nicer cosmetics than cheaper stuff.
Uses Roon bridge among other SW.
I have been waiting for something like this. Plug and play, purchasable locally etc and <A$1000. It's on its way in the post.
 

firedog

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From their site, does not seem to be Roon certified. Can always chat with them to find out the details.

I can assure you it works perfectly with Roon right out of the box, and sounds awesome!
Roon bridge. Makes it a Roon endpoint, but you aren't running the Roon GUI etc. on it. Irrelevant if all you want is playback. With Roon Bridge no certification necessary. Same as Running a RPi as a Roon endpoint.
 

dsnyder0cnn

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I have been waiting for something like this. Plug and play, purchasable locally etc and <A$1000. It's on its way in the post.

Just got my ZEN Stream in today and had some time to type up my impressions. Overall I'm delighted that I finally have a network audio transport that I can recommend to non-technical friends who want something that just works. While not perfect, it's pretty darned close and sounds great (if such things have a sound).

https://blog.dsnyder.ws-e.com/index.php/2021/07/08/zen-for-streaming/
 

dougi

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Just got my ZEN Stream in today and had some time to type up my impressions. Overall I'm delighted that I finally have a network audio transport that I can recommend to non-technical friends who want something that just works. While not perfect, it's pretty darned close and sounds great (if such things have a sound).

https://blog.dsnyder.ws-e.com/index.php/2021/07/08/zen-for-streaming/
Yes I received mine yesterday too. Slightly tricky to set up ("http://ifi.local") did not work on my phone browser so I had to track down the IP address. My only other complaint is that internet radio streams take ages to start playing, to the point you think they won't. Note you can use the generic Volumio app on your phone if you manually put in the IP address. All it does I think is point to the browser though.
 

dsnyder0cnn

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Yes I received mine yesterday too. Slightly tricky to set up ("http://ifi.local") did not work on my phone browser so I had to track down the IP address. My only other complaint is that internet radio streams take ages to start playing, to the point you think they won't. Note you can use the generic Volumio app on your phone if you manually put in the IP address. All it does I think is point to the browser though.

Yeah, this small processor is never going to work well as a media server. It's best used as purely a streaming endpoint for AirPlay, Spotify/TIDAL Connect, DLNA, HQPlayer NAA, or (my personal favorite) Roon Bridge.
 

Mr. BubbaHyde

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Yeah, this small processor is never going to work well as a media server. It's best used as purely a streaming endpoint for AirPlay, Spotify/TIDAL Connect, DLNA, HQPlayer NAA, or (my personal favorite) Roon Bridge.
I am using it as a Roon endpoint as well, for the most part. I am a longtime Pi user with all kinds of hats and concoctions, lol, but this Zen Stream has just about all of them beat in the SQ department. In terms of your comment on it not working well as media server, just curious but how did you mean that?

Are you gearing that comment towards those who have thousands and thousands of files in DSD on a NAS or drive? Or someone who has a relatively normal amount, lol.

I ask because as a Roon user if I had listened to all the people who repeatedly told me the bare minimum specs I needed for a Roon core computer I probably would have never become a Roon fanatic! In fact if I ever revealed what my PC for my "core" is I would probably be disbarred from ever speaking about the glories of Ronn again!! :D

Great review by the way, enjoyed it very much!
 

dsnyder0cnn

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In terms of your comment on it not working well as media server, just curious but how did you mean that?

Are you gearing that comment towards those who have thousands and thousands of files in DSD on a NAS or drive? Or someone who has a relatively normal amount, lol.

I ask because as a Roon user if I had listened to all the people who repeatedly told me the bare minimum specs I needed for a Roon core computer I probably would have never become a Roon fanatic! In fact if I ever revealed what my PC for my "core" is I would probably be disbarred from ever speaking about the glories of Ronn again!! :D

Great review by the way, enjoyed it very much!

The Volumio-based O/S that's installed on the ZEN Stream can index files on a locally attached hard drive, respond to remote control requests (via a browser interface) and sort-of work like a mini-Roon. But, the experience is pretty terrible if you have more than a few hundred albums, and all of that extra processing can spoil sound quality. Same goes for using the ZEN Stream for Internet radio, indexing hundreds of stations. It just does not have the power to work well in that role.

The ZEN Stream works best when the only thing you ask of it is to copy audio from the network to a locally attached DAC. It should not be uncompressing FLAC or mp3 streams. It should not be doing DSP or volume leveling, and so on…if sound quality is a concern.
 
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