Best tweeter design?

[EPC]

Best in regards to transient response, linearity and stereo image.

There are so many designs, to name a few:

• Soft dome
• Ribbon
• Focal’s Beryllium
• Barefoot’s radiator tweeter
• PMC Result6’s fin guide
• Amphion’s Titanium tweeter
• Horn tweeters

Etc, etc…

I know it’s a loaded question, but I wondered if there was a universally coveted design.

 

[guy soundy]

Would like too know this too, imo the quality differences between tweeters never seem to come up much in any disscusion about audio.

 

[mhardy6647]

Would like too know this too, imo the quality differences between tweeters never seem to come up much in any disscusion about audio.

umm... well... I mean... there's this:

Which type of tweeter is the best, and why are there so many types of them?

There are many tweeter types and technologies : Cone tweeter. Dome tweeter. Piezo tweeter. Ribbon tweeter. Planar-magnetic tweeter. Electrostatic tweeter. AMT tweeter. Horn tweeters etc. On the other hand bass drivers are basically mostly the same. Which type of tweeter is the best and why...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Eurasian]

Plasma, maybe?

 

[dfuller]

Not really. The implementation matters more than anything else. Heard good implementations and bad implementations of all of these.

• Soft dome

Soft domes have the advantage of having very controlled breakup modes and low mass, but maybe aren't nearly as pistonic in their passband as hard domes. The driver Kali chose is quite good in terms of distortion characteristics; the one on the JBL 300 series is not great.

• Barefoot’s radiator tweeter

Ring radiators are a subset of soft domes; they have generally improved HF linearity (often extending up to 30-40k) but behave as though they are a larger diameter than they are, so they beam early. The tweeters Barefoot uses beam around 5k on a flat baffle where a normal dome on a flat baffle is more like 8-10k.

• Ribbon

True ribbons have very wide and even horizontal dispersion with very narrow vertical. They also have limited LF capability meaning they generally need to be crossed pretty high.
AMTs (AKA "folded ribbons", "X-ART Tweeters", etc) have better LF capability meaning they can be crossed at a relatively normal frequency range, but can have both distortion and response linearity issues. They also don't have the spectacularly broad dispersion that true ribbons do. Cheap ones suck; good ones are expensive. HEDD's are among the best.

PMC Result6’s fin guide

I don't think it actually does anything. They use a standard soft dome. Also hated every PMC I've ever used, so there's that.

• Amphion’s Titanium tweeter

• Focal’s Beryllium

Metal dome tweeters (and make no mistake, an inverted dome is still a dome) are more pistonic (read: lower distortion) in their passband than soft domes, but are much more prone to having wild and uncontrolled breakup modes. The frequency of that resonance depends on the material and the size; titanium, aluminum, and magnesium all are between 25-30k somewhere where beryllium is up around 40k.

Amphion's unique thing is their unusually good vertical dispersion behavior; this is from a combination of waveguide design and crossover placement (it's pretty low, around 1500hz).

Focal's unique thing is that the inverted dome design has unusually wide dispersion characteristics for a dome, often linear out to 75-80 degrees off axis.

• Horn tweeters

Horn-loaded compression drivers are a totally different beast to the rest of what you mentioned, as they aren't direct radiators. They're significantly more efficient (generally up around 100dB/W) and can often be crossed quite low. Disadvantage of course is they're far less common and require a pretty deep horn loading to work properly - and horns/waveguides have their own problems that require careful design to not cause diffraction issues.

 

[watchnerd]

but I wondered if there was a universally coveted design.

Nope, they're all compromises and implementation is highly important.

 

[DVDdoug]

Best in regards to transient response, linearity and stereo image.

Transient response is related to frequency response. If the tweeter matches or exceeds your hearing range, it's fine.

I'm not sure what you mean by linearity but speakers are generally linear in that a 3dB increase in signal level results in a 3dB increase in sound output up to the point where it's overdriven into distortion,

Stereo image is mostly related to the recording, speaker placement, reflections in the room (which also depends on dispersion) and then whatever goes-on in your head to create the stereo illusion, In headphones it can be affected by frequency response, so that's probably true in a room too, but you probably don't want to compromise frequency response for better imaging.

 

[EPC]

Would like too know this too, imo the quality differences between tweeters never seem to come up much in any disscusion about

Not really. The implementation matters more than anything else. Heard good implementations and bad implementations of all of these.


Soft domes have the advantage of having very controlled breakup modes and low mass, but maybe aren't nearly as pistonic in their passband as hard domes. The driver Kali chose is quite good in terms of distortion characteristics; the one on the JBL 300 series is not great.

Ring radiators are a subset of soft domes; they have generally improved HF linearity (often extending up to 30-40k) but behave as though they are a larger diameter than they are, so they beam early. The tweeters Barefoot uses beam around 5k on a flat baffle where a normal dome on a flat baffle is more like 8-10k.

True ribbons have very wide and even horizontal dispersion with very narrow vertical. They also have limited LF capability meaning they generally need to be crossed pretty high.
AMTs (AKA "folded ribbons", "X-ART Tweeters", etc) have better LF capability meaning they can be crossed at a relatively normal frequency range, but can have both distortion and response linearity issues. They also don't have the spectacularly broad dispersion that true ribbons do. Cheap ones suck; good ones are expensive. HEDD's are among the best.

I don't think it actually does anything. They use a standard soft dome. Also hated every PMC I've ever used, so there's that.


Metal dome tweeters (and make no mistake, an inverted dome is still a dome) are more pistonic (read: lower distortion) in their passband than soft domes, but are much more prone to having wild and uncontrolled breakup modes. The frequency of that resonance depends on the material and the size; titanium, aluminum, and magnesium all are between 25-30k somewhere where beryllium is up around 40k.

Amphion's unique thing is their unusually good vertical dispersion behavior; this is from a combination of waveguide design and crossover placement (it's pretty low, around 1500hz).

Focal's unique thing is that the inverted dome design has unusually wide dispersion characteristics for a dome, often linear out to 75-80 degrees off axis.


Horn-loaded compression drivers are a totally different beast to the rest of what you mentioned, as they aren't direct radiators. They're significantly more efficient (generally up around 100dB/W) and can often be crossed quite low. Disadvantage of course is they're far less common and require a pretty deep horn loading to work properly - and horns/waveguides have their own problems that require careful design to not cause diffraction issues.

Thanks for your in-depth reply!

I'm currently rocking some cheap ribbon tweeter Adam T7Vs and wanted to upgrade.
I'm trying to approach the decision from a more modular mindset, i.e:

- What's the ideal tweeter?
- Is it better to go ported (front or rear) or passive?
- Do I sacrifice bass extension for punch by going for a smaller woofer?
- Active monitor or passive?

Etc...

Then try and find a speaker that fits my criteria that also has good build quality and reviews.
At least this way I know what and why I'm buying a specific set of monitors, rather than just following blind speaker recommendations.

 

[tomtoo]

Thanks for your in-depth reply!

I'm currently rocking some cheap ribbon tweeter Adam T7Vs and wanted to upgrade.
I'm trying to approach the decision from a more modular mindset, i.e:

- What's the ideal tweeter?
- Is it better to go ported (front or rear) or passive?
- Do I sacrifice bass extension for punch by going for a smaller woofer?
- Active monitor or passive?

Etc...

Then try and find a speaker that fits my criteria that also has good build quality and reviews.
At least this way I know what and why I'm buying a specific set of monitors, rather than just following blind speaker recommendations.

You are the guy with that br or passive question too.
See you like to walk faster then your feet go.
If there would be the best xyx everybody would go this way. A speaker is a system with many components. That has to fit to a usage for a price. So if your adams dont fit you, you first have to see why they dont fit you?

 

[EPC]

You are the guy with that br or passive question too.
See you like to walk faster then your feet go.
If there would be the best xyx everybody would go this way. A speaker is a system with many components. That has to fit to a usage for a price. So if your adams dont fit you, you first have to see why they dont fit you?

I can tell you why they don't...
The tweeter feels very decoupled from the woofer with the crossover being quite apparently.
The bass lacks sufficient punch, and the mid range sounds smeared and lacks clarity.

 

[tomtoo]

I can tell you why they don't...
The tweeter feels very decoupled from the woofer with the crossover being quite apparently.
The bass lacks sufficient punch, and the mid range sounds smeared and lacks clarity.

Compared to what?

 

[dfuller]

- What's the ideal tweeter?

The one that fits the design properly.

- Is it better to go ported (front or rear) or passive?

All 3 can be good. All 3 can be bad, Implementation matters more than technology.

- Do I sacrifice bass extension for punch by going for a smaller woofer?

No. The tradeoffs are bass extension, bass SPL, and midrange dispersion. Smaller drivers behave better higher up with regard to dispersion characteristics, but can't get as loud nor go as low as a larger driver. Hence, 3 way (or even 4 way) designs.

- Active monitor or passive?

Active, literally every time.

The tweeter feels very decoupled from the woofer with the crossover being quite apparently.

Either you're sitting too close or pretty seriously vertically off-axis.

The bass lacks sufficient punch, and the mid range sounds smeared and lacks clarity.

Bass is probably your room. Midrange could also be your room, it could be 150ish hz desk bounce, it could be any number of different things.

 

[TimVG]

Bang for buck, the SEAS DXT. Not too expensive, consistent and a great all-round performer (on the right baffle).

 

[alex-z]

Best in regards to transient response, linearity and stereo image.

Those things have more to do with crossover and baffle design. Even $15 dome tweeters can be relatively flat, image well, and have good time domain performance. As you move up in price, you are generally paying for less distortion at high SPL, and better directivity control.

In terms of what I think is "best" aka least compromise, the tweeter in the modern KEF Uni-Q drivers. The tangerine waveguide does a really nice job of controlling directivity and boosting efficiency. But I do love a good 1" compression driver crossed at 1200Hz as well, it just depends on what kind of speaker you are looking to achieve.

 

[guy soundy]

AMT's very clear and real sound

 

[YSC]

I can tell you why they don't...
The tweeter feels very decoupled from the woofer with the crossover being quite apparently.
The bass lacks sufficient punch, and the mid range sounds smeared and lacks clarity.

tweeter decoupled sounds like you are putting them way too close to your listening position so the sound don't integrate together

bass and midrange likely from desktop reflection where it gets boomy at low mids/high bass region and when you set volume with that SPL the real mid to low bass gets too quiet. and maybe some room mode cancellation making a large null somewhere.

Overall it sounds like a placement issue more than the speaker, maybe the best investment will be a measurement mic with EQ or do some basic room treatment and move the speaker around

 

[mj30250]

Not to pile on, but the best really depends on your goals, needs, and room. Virtually any tweeter type can sound excellent or sound terrible, it really depends on the design and its integration into the overall speaker system.

In my primary room, I've heard soft domes, metallic domes (including Be), AMT, and true ribbons, and the best tweeter I've personally heard has been a customized 70-20 RAAL ribbon in a 3-way tower. Second best would be a Revel Be tweeter in a waveguide (also in a 3-way). But, while the RAAL system sounds phenomenal on-axis, as soon as you stand up, the Be sounds a bit better because its vertical dispersion is far taller. There are always tradeoffs.

 

[clutch]

Best in regards to transient response, linearity and stereo image.

There are so many designs, to name a few:

• Soft dome
• Ribbon
• Focal’s Beryllium
• Barefoot’s radiator tweeter
• PMC Result6’s fin guide
• Amphion’s Titanium tweeter
• Horn tweeters

Etc, etc…

I know it’s a loaded question, but I wondered if there was a universally coveted design.

Most of the "high end" supposed "audiophile" speakers either use Ribbon or Beryllium tweeters. BUT if you want the question already answered for you - check out Madisound for speakers etc. Everything they have is great to excellent.Silver Flute being one of the best for their price point. But you can't go wrong with Any of their speakers. And don't forget, really the crossover will make or break your system and sound quality. Your won't get the best sound of your speakers without a good crossover, or DSP (Digital Sound Processor. Though I tend to like the passive crossovers over digital). That's the best answer, and sorry so many "less than honest" responses. (exaample: That's like asking what's the best looking girl". Yeah it's not your wooof of a sister there buddy ! lol!). Good question and trust me this is the best answer. Those guys have done all the work for ya. And no it is not a super expensive can't afford anything store. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[regan]

The one that fits the design properly.

Would you say Wharfedale Lintons, EVO 4.2, Elac UBR62, Kef R3 have properly implemented twitter?

 

[Waxx]

Like said it all depends on the implementation. Domes and ring radiators, (soft or hard) are often the least compromise for hifi systems, but lack the power for high power systems. They are relative easy to implement and have a good frequecy response and dispertion and relative low distortion. Hard domes are often better when they can keep the resonance high enough to have all effects out of the passband. Soft domes have mostly resoances that high it does not matter, but are more noisy in the lower frequencies off their passband, so they need to be crossed higher in general for good results

And price don't tell much about quality, my favorite hard dome tweeter (the SB26ADC) cost 50€, and is better than all tweeters i had in my hands (Scanspeak, Morel, Bliesma, ...), that cost 10x the price. My favorite soft dome is an old one, the legendaric Seas H087 from 1968 that was used in a lot of legendaric speakers of the 1970's like the Dynaco A25 and the ones i have, the Goodman Mezzo SL. It may be a 45 years old design, but it's still not beaten as far as I know.

Ribbons, AMT's and similar systems have a very even detailed sound on axis, but lack dispertion and are often limited in their dynamics so they sound a bit compressed with very dynamic music. I in general are not so fond of them. The only ones i like a bit are the Raal Lazy Ribbon and the ESS Heil AMT. But even then, a good wel implemented dome is in general better in my opinion.

Compression drivers are great, but hard to implement right. They are very high sensitive (mostly above 105dB/2.83v/1M) and need a good horn to really work well. Due to the high sensivity you need an active crossover (or loose a lot of power in heat created by a resistor system). to match the woofer or mid drivers. And due to the horn, the dispertion is also limited, but mostly relative even when done right. Those are mostly used in high power P.A. systems, but also in hifi. They are also the oldest type of tweeters i think...