Best sounding closed-back headphone $500-$1,000 for a non-audiophile?

[solderdude]

Seal issues with X-60 have a profound effect on the bass.

 

[markanini]

I could see the bass sounding weak if 3-6kHz ends up at the higher end, that affects bass perception for sure, especially when 70-80Hz is consistently recessed.

The main issues in terms of inconsistencies are likely to be in the mids / trebles, and as the pads wear out over time (which they do quite quickly). I did eventually find the Hi-X65 a coupling nightmare, but not at lower frequencies .

How does the coupling issue manifest for you?

 

[PRL18]

No worries. Solderdude actually wrote an excellent crash course on how to read frequency response curves:

Frequency response

home back to Learn back to How to interpret graphs published: Mar-18-2017, updated: Sep-6-2020 Frequency response deviations, as well as phase response, are so called ‘linear distortions&#821…

diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com

Edit: here's another introduction to frequency response graphs written by Crinacle:

Graphs 101: How to Read Headphone Measurements – In-Ear Fidelity

A guide to reading frequency response graphs of headphones and IEMs.

crinacle.com

Thanks. With time I'll get to read and learn from it.

 

[PRL18]

For bassheads or people wearing glasses with thick arms they sure can be light on bass and not 'fun'.

These are 'accurate' monitoring headphones so tonally 'neutral' with small emphasis on treble which is because they are intended for monitoring where a small emphasis there 'helps' in finding problems in a mix and ensures recordings (the end product for consumers) does not sound bright nor sharp when mixing using these.
These are not 'hifi headphones for music enjoyment' in the sense that they do not have a 'speaker-in-room' alike midbass emphasis like some of the typical 'hifi headphones'.
Instead the bass level is very much like the Elegia but without the recessed upper mids that one has. There is much more 'clarity' in the X60 and 'brightness'.
Because the 'tilt' of the tonality of the X60 is closer to that of good nearfield monitors and the Elegia more 'speaker in a room alike from a few meters away' they sound different despite having similar bass to mid response.



In this price range it is among the best.
There is NO such thing as 'the best' headphone.
Sure... one can look for the highest 'recommendation' or the highest 'compliance to a target' number but that actually might mean nothing on your head.
How much we like to believe that a plot made on their specific personal fav. test fixture and target is exactly how it will sound/perform on your head alas more often than not is no reality.

One can find a 'best' headphone for themselves though. That might be different than what others like best or what is higher in some ranking list.

I cannot possibly tell you which headphone you might like best.
All I can say is that when you prefer nearfield speakers (from less than 1 meter away) and hearing 'details' and need room for your ears the X60 basically is a very good choice.
When you like a more 'distant' speaker-in room sound without Harman like bass but more 'relaxed' in the upper mids and treble you would do better with Elegia.

Thanks a lot for your input. I'll try to listen to and compare between the X-60, Dan Clark and Audeze.

 

[MayaTlab]

I could see the bass sounding weak if 3-6kHz ends up at the higher end, that affects bass perception for sure, especially when 70-80Hz is consistently recessed.

How does the coupling issue manifest for you?

Austrian Audio Hi-X65 open-back announced

Austrian Audio is releasing a new Headphone: https://austrian.audio/hi-x65/?utm_source=Austrian+Audio&utm_campaign=eb006abba4-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_09_02_07_49_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_cdf026ac65-eb006abba4-362830088

audiosciencereview.com

I'd like to think that I've become a bit more experienced by now with in-ear mics but this should give an idea.
TLDR : treble response above a few kHz was a poor match vs. ear simulators - like quite a few headphones, and the pads had an audible effect over a few weeks above a few hundred Hz.

 

[ZolaIII]

@MayaTlab

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/80700977.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj_l_H4_d_9AhUmiv0HHZW3AAIQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SrpiHBgr4eMsi19WPxQ6A

Happy reading.

 

[MayaTlab]

@MayaTlab

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/80700977.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj_l_H4_d_9AhUmiv0HHZW3AAIQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SrpiHBgr4eMsi19WPxQ6A

Happy reading.

I already have. Is there a specific part you'd like to draw my attention to ?

 

[ZolaIII]

I already have. Is there a specific part you'd like to draw my attention to ?

No not really and so did I.
Edit: if you have recommendations on topic and some more competitive ones to recommend I would be interested.

 

[MayaTlab]

No not really and so did I.
Edit: if you have recommendations on topic and some more competitive ones to recommend I would be interested.

You mean, in-ear mics ?
I don't feel qualified to be prescriptive about how you should go about it, but I think that experimenting and making a lot of repeated measurements helps quite a bit.
The two things however where I'd be quite prescriptive is that a) you'll benefit a lot from measuring the relative difference between headphones with different types of in situ mics and compare results, and b) you probably shouldn't bother with any type of mic that isn't past the ear canal entrance unless you want to test for specific things at lower frequencies.
Personally I start with Sound Professionals' mics and mod them : https://soundprofessionals.com/product-category/miniature-binaural-microphones/
But you can make it cheaper by soldering your own mics and cables.

 

[ZolaIII]

I ment HRTF in generally and as wide and granular as possible.

 

[MayaTlab]

I ment HRTF in generally and as wide and granular as possible.

I am skeptical that you can capture your own HRTF map outside of a dedicated space. In one's room I think that what you can do is "do a Harman", ie measure the response in situ of a pair of hopefully decent loudspeakers in a hopefully decent room.

 

[PRL18]

Hello gents,

Thanks for all the advice. I finally received the AA HI-X60 and I've been testing them a bit tonite

Unfortunately I already returned the Elegias so I can't compare them at the same time. I listened to spotify plugged directly to my iphone 11 with no DAC/amp, so low resolution, meh DAC with no additional power.

The AA are more comfortable for my big head. The pressure is enough without being too tight. And they boasts a bit more bass. Luckily, they work just by simple plugging them to the phone, although may sound better with dedicated hardware.

In my opinion, the Elegias have a wider sound stage, sound clearer and have more separation of instrument (at least I could identify them easily). The AA seem to leak a bit more sound.

Although the bass is more precise on both, I enjoy more the bass of my 1More Quads, but they are muddier. I wonder if that makes me a basshead.

I'll be listening to the AAs for a few days, but will also test the Aeon 2 Noire and the LCD-XC. If none of them convince me I guess I will go back to the Elegias although the comfort...

Something that caught my attention is the very thin coiled cable on the top of the AA's earpieces, given how thick and expensive some cables are. Doesn't this defeat the purpose of buying the best cables?

 

[bodhi]

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of buying the best cables?

It was defeated way back by science and common sense.

 

[oleg87]

The effect of the cables (at audio frequencies) is cumulative over the length of the respective cables. So to the (negligible) extent a headphone headphone cable has an effect, it will be dominated by the long bit.

 

[solderdude]

Something that caught my attention is the very thin coiled cable on the top of the AA's earpieces, given how thick and expensive some cables are. Doesn't this defeat the purpose of buying the best cables?

These wires are in series with the wiring of the driver which is thinner than a hair and many times longer.

Buying 'better' cables should be about microphony, needed length, connector type needed, supple/stiffness, strength, durabilty and looks.
As you can see the copper inside is not even mentioned.
That said, 3 or 4 wire cables and long lengths are a factor.

'Best' is not equal to thickness of the sheathing anyway. Even the thickest headphone cables have very thin copper wires in them anyway.

 

[markanini]

I wouldn't want thick cables to load down the drivers personally.

 

[Rayman30]

They have a brighter tuning at stock, due to their intended purposes for being monitoring headphones, keep in mind that your brain has adjusted to the Elegia, and will need to put in time with the Hi-X60. Do you wear glasses? that affects the seal on these, which can hurt bass performance.

Try Equalizer APO with the Peace plugin, and give the attached EQ a shot.

 

[PRL18]

Thanks everybody again. Can't say I haven't been learning here with all the contributions

 

[PRL18]

They have a brighter tuning at stock, due to their intended purposes for being monitoring headphones, keep in mind that your brain has adjusted to the Elegia, and will need to put in time with the Hi-X60. Do you wear glasses? that affects the seal on these, which can hurt bass performance.

Try Equalizer APO with the Peace plugin, and give the attached EQ a shot.

View attachment 273522

Thanks. I can't see the image very clear. Seems to be from this link? https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/ If so, I'll have to find something for Apple. I tried the EQ from Spotify but is very limited.

I do use glasses but they have thin arms and I listened with and without glasses. I didn't find any differences.

 

[solderdude]

It depends on whether or not the arms of glasses lift the pad a bit and create a 'gap' between the skin and pad.
When there is no gap between the arms of the glasses and the skin it'll probably be fine.