Best raspberry pi dac

[gvh1234]

For the Picoreplayer people there are now some docs on using the Argon case and Smartipi cases, including the new Pro, which might prove interesting
https://docs.picoreplayer.org/projects/
HTH

 

[michman66]

I'll try to explain this as I understand it. The 3+ share the electronics between the ethernet port AND the 4 USB ports. What I read and what John Darko showed and explained was using the Signature One, you will isolate this situation. The dirty board in the middle serves this purpose.

Hence using 2 5v sources to power each board. He states use a better 5v source like a linear power supply OR an Ifi 5v brick for the clean board,. I have the iFi powering the D50s. I am using 2 Raspberry pi 5v supplies 9.00 or so each. I'm waiting for the out of stock battery pack to power the 'clean board'. He further reported the sound was improved further.

I have not tried the USB out of the 3+ to compare. Funny I was thinking of this today. The whole purpose of sticking the Digi signature one in there is to go spdif. I'm not looking for an argument for ones and zeros. All I can report is this: I was using a Windows laptop with Jriver with my SSD library. When I attached the SSD to the 3+ Signature one, for me, there is no turning back. I hear a much clearer presentation across the board. All the noise from the laptop is gone.

I use Volumio with this set up. It's very easy to get going. I run it headless with my Android phone.

I'm a life long professional musician, lead and conduct an 18 piece jazz band yada. I love listening to my modest system.

Now, for something that MAY BE even better. I got a Pi 4. What I read is Raspberry reworked the electrical situation between the ethernet and USB ports. And upgraded from 2.0 to 3.0. And electrically separated them.

I will set this up next AND run my newly acquired Supra USB 1m cable. If this surpasses the 3+ and signature I'll truly be scratching my head!! Now that I know the 4 is better in this respect, others can save 275.00 buying the Signature one.

Whew, thanks for reading my thoughts through this.

Otto

 

[cryptout]

I'll try to explain this as I understand it. The 3+ share the electronics between the ethernet port AND the 4 USB ports. What I read and what John Darko showed and explained was using the Signature One, you will isolate this situation. The dirty board in the middle serves this purpose.

Hence using 2 5v sources to power each board. He states use a better 5v source like a linear power supply OR an Ifi 5v brick for the clean board,. I have the iFi powering the D50s. I am using 2 Raspberry pi 5v supplies 9.00 or so each. I'm waiting for the out of stock battery pack to power the 'clean board'. He further reported the sound was improved further.

I have not tried the USB out of the 3+ to compare. Funny I was thinking of this today. The whole purpose of sticking the Digi signature one in there is to go spdif. I'm not looking for an argument for ones and zeros. All I can report is this: I was using a Windows laptop with Jriver with my SSD library. When I attached the SSD to the 3+ Signature one, for me, there is no turning back. I hear a much clearer presentation across the board. All the noise from the laptop is gone.

I use Volumio with this set up. It's very easy to get going. I run it headless with my Android phone.

I'm a life long professional musician, lead and conduct an 18 piece jazz band yada. I love listening to my modest system.

Now, for something that MAY BE even better. I got a Pi 4. What I read is Raspberry reworked the electrical situation between the ethernet and USB ports. And upgraded from 2.0 to 3.0. And electrically separated them.

I will set this up next AND run my newly acquired Supra USB 1m cable. If this surpasses the 3+ and signature I'll truly be scratching my head!! Now that I know the 4 is better in this respect, others can save 275.00 buying the Signature one.

Whew, thanks for reading my thoughts through this.

Otto

You might want to checkout Amirs video about USB cables:

 

[somebodyelse]

I'll try to explain this as I understand it. The 3+ share the electronics between the ethernet port AND the 4 USB ports. What I read and what John Darko showed and explained was using the Signature One, you will isolate this situation. The dirty board in the middle serves this purpose.

Hence using 2 5v sources to power each board. He states use a better 5v source like a linear power supply OR an Ifi 5v brick for the clean board,. I have the iFi powering the D50s. I am using 2 Raspberry pi 5v supplies 9.00 or so each. I'm waiting for the out of stock battery pack to power the 'clean board'. He further reported the sound was improved further.

I have not tried the USB out of the 3+ to compare. Funny I was thinking of this today. The whole purpose of sticking the Digi signature one in there is to go spdif. I'm not looking for an argument for ones and zeros. All I can report is this: I was using a Windows laptop with Jriver with my SSD library. When I attached the SSD to the 3+ Signature one, for me, there is no turning back. I hear a much clearer presentation across the board. All the noise from the laptop is gone.

I use Volumio with this set up. It's very easy to get going. I run it headless with my Android phone.

I'm a life long professional musician, lead and conduct an 18 piece jazz band yada. I love listening to my modest system.

Now, for something that MAY BE even better. I got a Pi 4. What I read is Raspberry reworked the electrical situation between the ethernet and USB ports. And upgraded from 2.0 to 3.0. And electrically separated them.

I will set this up next AND run my newly acquired Supra USB 1m cable. If this surpasses the 3+ and signature I'll truly be scratching my head!! Now that I know the 4 is better in this respect, others can save 275.00 buying the Signature one.

Whew, thanks for reading my thoughts through this.

Otto

Where to begin...

"All the noise from the laptop is gone" probably gets to the heart of it. You had a ground noise issue with the laptop, a common problem. You switched systems and the ground noise went away - a clear audible improvement. So far so good, and I'm glad you've got something that works for you.

The problem is (your presentation of?) Darko's explanation which is a mixture of half-truth and irrelevance.

There is a genuine potential problem (issue #2215) with USB audio on Pi models before the Pi 4. It's complicated, but doesn't seem to be related to shared electronics, and it is definitely affected by what software you're running. Search the site for #2215 and you'll probably find one of my more detailed explanations. I said 'potential problem' as many people don't encounter it - I have tried and failed to reproduce it with piCorePlayer, but with the same hardware I can reliably trigger it with Volumio or Raspbian running BruteFIR. If you don't get random pops and clicks (a bit like vinyl) then you don't have this problem. It has nothing to do with how clean the 5V power is.

Hats, whether DAC or digital output, use the I2S interface so avoid issue #2215.

Ground related noise with computers often presents as a low level noise that changes in response to something like moving the mouse, drive access, starting a game etc. This is a modern presentation of the old 'mains hum/buzz' problem - now we have computer activity modulating the leakage current, and the changes make it more noticeable than if it were constant. With 'computers' like the Pi the different leakage properties of the PSU can make a difference, and with 2-prong mains connectors it can be worse one way round than the other. Leakage currents can get out via the ground connection on USB, analog leads, non-isolated digital coax leads and so on. The solutions aren't a mystery - use balanced interconnects that aren't affected by the ground currents, or find and isolate the offending ground connection. Jensen Transformers have some useful application notes on this, among others. Toslink inherently provides isolation. Coax spdif is sometimes transformer isolated - for example you can see the transformer behind the socket on the HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, whereas the Standard doesn't have one. Cables or adapters that creatively abuse the USB standard may or may not help, and may or may not cause compatibility issues.

This isn't to say noise on the USB 5V line is never a problem - it's a clear problem with poorly designed DACs like the Modi 2, and dongle style DACs may not have the space available for proper filtering. I'd spend my money on a better designed DAC, not a 'special' USB port.

 

[michman66]

You might want to checkout Amirs video about USB cables:

I have, why? The Supra is 43.00, I did not over spend on an "exotic cable.

 

[Jungstar]

I did search on this subject and did not find exactly what I need. I downloaded Volumio and used it. I started reading more yesterday and see many use Moode Audio and the consensus is it does sound better. I am not a Roon subscriber. There is also PiCore Player, DietPi, Max2 play. So far I am having much trouble working through setting up either Moode, PiCore, or Max2Play. Before I keep trouble shooting and spending more hours on this, ( I am good on a PC, but this area of stuff is always kinda ' Twisty" for me).

I'd like to get something that is easy and sounds good. Part 2. Is it possible to have more than 1 program on the micro SD card? Any time I try to add another program, Windows says I must format the card yada yada, Well we know if I do, it will erase what is on it. Would I have to have separate cards for each piece of software?

I know these are newbie questions, any direction would be very appreciated. My goal is to replace the laptop ( USB ) and use the Raspberry 3+ with the Allo signature 1.

Thank you,
Otto

Why not just use Volumio.
It seems to be easy and works well.
Do you really believe the other program sounds better?

 

[Jungstar]

I have no words for IAN CANADA - Best DAC "HAT"....

It is modular, so you can start with just the 1. DAC (normal or dual-mono 9038) and 2. Outputstage around to get started + 3. the RP

 

[michman66]

Why not just use Volumio.
It seems to be easy and works well.
Do you really believe the other program sounds better?

I dont know if other programs sound better, this was my original post, help installing other programs so I can judge them.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

I dont know if other programs sound better, this was my original post, help installing other programs so I can judge them.

moOde and Volumio are virtually the same as far as ease of installing and setting up. They also use the same back-end player - mpd. I doubt you will hear any difference in a proper test.

 

[michman66]

moOde and Volumio are virtually the same as far as ease of installing and setting up. They also use the same back-end player - mpd. I doubt you will hear any difference in a proper test.

There was a member here that stated he felt M.A. to him sounded better than Volumio. This is what sparked my curiosity. I'll try to Install MA again and check it out. There 3 or 4 other players too, not sure how much of a brain hemorrhage I want to risk. Now why am I at this? I was using a Windows laptop with JRiver. Very happy with that software. Many ways to adjust the sound. Room corrections, equalization, etc. Let's not get into, well all that stuff could muddy the sound.

Now I went and built a Raspberry pi 3+, and added an ALLO Signature One. Had fun doing that. So now I have a streamer, for cheap, going to a Topping D50s.I have lost JRiver, and Volumio does not have any of the diverse options, a JRiver, a Roon or Audrivana has. I'm wondering if I can find one of these software players that has some of the fore mentioned tweaks.

Do I or anybody have to do any of this. Well, it's a hobby right, so I like to listen AND tweak...its fun and interesting.

I have found the standalone streamer Allo stack sounds cleaner to me than the laptop route using USB wire. The Allo has a spdif output. I've opened the doors for comparison or criticism. Lol. It's all good.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

Now I went and built a Raspberry pi 3+, and added an ALLO Signature One. Had fun doing that. So now I have a streamer, for cheap, going to a Topping D50s

I have upgraded to a raspberry Pi 4, but I only use a D10.

moOde just introduced a very interesting feature. They have integrated CamillaDSP, so now you can do headphone room EQ using convulotion and all sorts of other neat things.

As for difference in sound, I struggle to see how they could be significantly different. Apparently they both started out as forks of the same software. Both use MPD as the player behind the scenes. Any difference must just be setup. I had Volumio initially , but they took to long to fix some bugs (crashing after every few days) and I have found the moOde people to be MUCH more responsive. They even fixed a small bug I found in the next version they released. When I switched I didn't notice any real difference in sound.

 

[michman66]

I have upgraded to a raspberry Pi 4, but I only use a D10.

moOde just introduced a very interesting feature. They have integrated CamillaDSP, so now you can do headphone room EQ using convulotion and all sorts of other neat things.

As for difference in sound, I struggle to see how they could be significantly different. Apparently they both started out as forks of the same software. Both use MPD as the player behind the scenes. Any difference must just be setup. I had Volumio initially , but they took to long to fix some bugs (crashing after every few days) and I have found the moOde people to be MUCH more responsive. They even fixed a small bug I found in the next version they released. When I switched I didn't notice any real difference in sound.

Thank you for your notes. I'm not an advanced digital audiophile yet, I'm getting there. I have a Pi 4 too. I'm going to place this next to the 3+ Allo stack ,, use USB out of the 3.0 usb out into the D50s and have a listen. The 4 separated the usb ports and ethernet port electrically, will be fun to try both in this different path way.

There are a few good HAT's for the 4 too, this is something I'm looking at too. Either a dac board or a usb bridge to a Dragonfly black I have. This is for my work station set up. The Helm bolt is tempting at 99.00. Or the new dongle by Astell & Kern yet to be available.

 

[somebodyelse]

There was a member here that stated he felt M.A. to him sounded better than Volumio. This is what sparked my curiosity. I'll try to Install MA again and check it out. There 3 or 4 other players too, not sure how much of a brain hemorrhage I want to risk. Now why am I at this? I was using a Windows laptop with JRiver. Very happy with that software. Many ways to adjust the sound. Room corrections, equalization, etc. Let's not get into, well all that stuff could muddy the sound.

Now I went and built a Raspberry pi 3+, and added an ALLO Signature One. Had fun doing that. So now I have a streamer, for cheap, going to a Topping D50s.I have lost JRiver, and Volumio does not have any of the diverse options, a JRiver, a Roon or Audrivana has. I'm wondering if I can find one of these software players that has some of the fore mentioned tweaks.

Latest Moode version includes CamillaDSP which can be used for room correction and EQ. Ease of use will probably improve in future versions.

 

[michman66]

Latest Moode version includes CamillaDSP which can be used for room correction and EQ. Ease of use will probably improve in future versions.

Very good to know! Question, I can run Volumio headless as they say from my Android phone. Last time I meesed with Moode, could not see this was possible. Yes I need to drill down more on this. I have an iPad air , and an Android tablet. If this will work. Knowing the IP address was where I was stopped by frustration the last time. Room correction would be very nice. My listening area is in an open space in an unfinished basement. Not very good. I sit 8ft away in a 8ft triangle. JRiver has several listening environments, like Studio, Living Room, Concert Hall, with different levels of adjustment. Miss that.

 

[somebodyelse]

I don't think I've tried an audio-specific distro that can't be run headless - most have the option to use a local display, but the primary interface is the web browser, with the option of an app that covers the everyday music player interface. Most of them default to using a .local name too, so for example http://moode or http://moode.local would probably work without you needing to look up the IP address. Volumio has a room correction plugin too, but it's a bit more tricky to install. I think they both need something external like REW to take measurements and create the correction profile.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

Very good to know! Question, I can run Volumio headless as they say from my Android phone. Last time I meesed with Moode, could not see this was possible.

Completely possible. That's the way I use it all the time.

 

[Xombul]

Few remarks :

• It is very easy to get the IP adress with an Android smartphone connected to the Wifi networks by using Fing for instance. Believe me, even with Volumio it is always useful to know the IP adress of your raspberry...
• For having tried both, I prefer by far Camilla DSP implementation in MoOde than Brutefir in Volumio : it is way easier to set-up (actually Camilla is fully integrated in MoOde) and to use, especially if you are a headphones afficionado.
• In any case, you will have to create a convolution filter in wav format for the loudspeakers : to do so you need a good microphone (Umik-1 is a standard option) and a software. If you have a lot of time, a good dog with trained ears, and a PhD in acoustics you can use REW+rephase which is a free solution : it is fun, but also time consuming. Otherwise you can invest in a software like Acourate, Audiolense etc, keeping in mind that, as far as I know, some of them like Dirac, Arc, Mathaudio do not allow you to generate a convolution filter in a wav format (they have a proprietary format for the correction file and their own convolver)

 

[rcstevensonaz]

Believe me, even with Volumio it is always useful to know the IP adress of your raspberry

One approach is to log into your router, and configure the DHCP section to assign a static IP address (based on its MAC address) to the various audio and server devices. That way, you always know what IP address any particular device is mapped to. This is especially useful if you are doing headless installs.

Further, you can even assign local host names. For example: vortexbox.<mydomain>.local brings up my VortexBox server interface, and vortextbox.<mydomain>.local:9000 brings up my LMS server interface.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

One approach is to log into your router, and configure the DHCP section to assign a static IP address

You often don't even have to do that. Just log into your router and look at the list of connected devices. The one that says it's name is "moode" , for example, is your raspberry pi running moOde Audio, with it's ip address.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

You often don't even have to do that. Just log into your router and look at the list of connected devices. The one that says it's name is "moode" , for example, is your raspberry pi running moOde Audio, with it's ip address.

This is true. You can often find the IP address by logging into your router and looking at the DHCP assigned table. Though whether a useful name shows up will varies by device—most will, but some devices will register with a blank field. However, that address may likely change after an internet, device, or power outage (i.e., whenever the device reobtains an IP address from the DHCP server).

For headless devices, setting a static IP address means the device will always have the exact same IP address (provided your router is running). That can great simplify things when you need to open a browser window or SSH into the device. Adding a domain name can further simplify life.