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Best processor choice

lashto

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Doesn’t it have 100db? You can hear difference between 100 and let’s say 110/120db…? I wouldn’t think that’s possible
Why does everyone talk about SINAD's audibility nowadays? Aren't there enough studies that prove SINAD and audibility to be not correlated?! Aren't there enough ASR posts from nice people who warn you like "SINAD is not a measure of audibility"?!

Like I said in my other post, SINAD is just a measure of engineering competence and quality. Top engineering quality nowadays means:
  1. SINAD >120 for DACs and SINAD >105 for AVC/Rs.
  2. do that for a giant lot less money than the 20K price of Trinnov.
That is engineering pride (or "bragging rights" if you wish). And Trinov is not in that category. Not saying it is bad in any way, I'd buy one if I won the lottery :)
 
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sarumbear

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It's all just a form of engineering pride and "bragging rights".
I don’t agree. If an engineer brags for doing a good job on just one criteria they are not a good engineer. They should at least read the unit specs and score their achievement, then brag.

ASR only tests the signal chain. There are no third party sites that tests the facilities of the units. On top of that, top of the range devices are expensive so few has any first hand experience either. The vast majority here are talking for the sake of talking.
 

Dougey_Jones

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What else can anyone understand with your sentence below with the word actually?
Their website states that they have 10,000 total installations using Trinnov Optimizer (which I already agreed is great). My statement was regarding what percentage of those installations retail sales (Altitude 16/32) account for. My guess is not many, mostly due to the nearly $20,000 price tag.

It wasn't a hard sentence to understand actually, are you sure you're British and English is your first language?
 

sarumbear

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…are you sure you're British and English is your first language?
Do you question everything you have no idea about and be rude to people whom you don’t know?

I will not reply to you anymore.
 

Dougey_Jones

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hmt

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so, what did you mean exactly?

could it be that you meant to use the it's-not-audible 'argument'?! It's very wrong but no need to discuss SINAD/audibility details because that 'argument' was repeatedly eliminated as "not the point" in the 3800 measurements thread. Or in my other post here...

P.S.
in any case, if you want a useful answer you should first state your point clearly. Otherwise, I'm guessing your point and then responding to my own guess. Feels quite strange...
I said get the Denon and forget about the DAC. And yes, my argument is still that it is not audible. An no, that argument has not been eliminated.
 

hmt

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I don’t agree. If an engineer brags for doing a good job on just one criteria they are not a good engineer. They should at least read the unit specs and score their achievement, then brag.

ASR only tests the signal chain. There are no third party sites that tests the facilities of the units. On top of that, top of the range devices are expensive so few has any first hand experience either. The vast majority here are talking for the sake of talking.

Yep. One could say that the engineers at D&M got all out of the DAC they could. The perfomance is not 100 db worse because their engineering is worse. It is because they had to use a different DAC.
 
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Daka

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Why does everyone talk about SINAD's audibility nowadays? Aren't there enough studies that prove SINAD and audibility to be not correlated?! Aren't there enough ASR posts from nice people who warn you like "SINAD is not a measure of audibility"?!

Like I said in my other post, SINAD is just a measure of engineering competence and quality. Top engineering quality nowadays means:
  1. SINAD >120 for DACs and SINAD >105 for AVC/Rs.
  2. do that for a giant lot less money than the 20K price of Trinnov.
That is engineering pride and "bragging rights". And Trinov is not in that category. Not saying it is bad in any way, I'd buy one if I won the lottery :)
With that I will totally agree. Bragging rights indeed not how we should deem whether product is a good processor/AVR or not.
 

voodooless

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I think we're running around in circles here. It's fairly clear that a SINAD difference does not contribute to the main audibility difference between these processors. The room correction and other processing options are the main drivers here.

The big issue here is that there is very little objective data to compare these, nor are there any standardized test procedures for this. We only have theoretical gains as well as anecdotal evidence to work with, which is frustrating, to say the least.
 

lashto

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I said get the Denon and forget about the DAC. And yes, my argument is still that it is not audible. An no, that argument has not been eliminated.
First things first: are you sure that you do have an audibility argument? Did anyone measure that? Is there a blind test somewhere that I am not aware of?! Otherwise, there is nothing worth discussing.

Yes, the review thread is full of posts like "SINAD xx is not audible". Those are not even worth responding to. Anyone who posts stuff like that only proves one thing: they do not understand the SINAD number or distortion in general (most probably both).
You should dismiss their posts as fast as you dismiss the (usually paid for) 'reviews' saying stuff like "it's so new", "it's so shinny", "it sounds so amazing"...
 

hmt

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Do you have any proof for the audibility? Is there a blind test that proves the 3700 to be audibly better than the 3800? No? Then your post is not worth discussing.
If you really think you could make out any harmonics 80 db down the fundamental out of a music signal: good luck. For me that is as snakeoil as the skin effect of cables. And I am not even talking about the SINAD of your speakers that will be dimensions higher than -80 db.


GaryH also made the point quite well.

 
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rcstevensonaz

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Or maybe the best choice is to take a hometheater processor/amplifier with internal amps turned off like Denon x3600/3700/4700... ? (but actually in france, it's difficult to find with the old DAC (AK4458)
You can go even further back in time for a used Denon if you want the AK4458. I was looking up the specs for my AVR-X4400H (2017) and was surprised that it also has AKM AK4458VN chipset. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the option to turn off unused amps.
 
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