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Best processor choice

Mikythebad

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Hi,

I wanna update the processor of my hometheater composed actually by :
- Processor : Nakamichi AV1 (overall good but no atmos, no 4k, only one hdmi output, worse Dolby digital + decoding when it comes from netflix, disney+..., not the best audio correction....), it have a CS42518 DAC
- Amps : Audiophonics NC502MP, NC252MP, NC250MP.
- Speakers : Focal aria : 2 x 948, 2 x SR900, 1 CC900
- Subs : 2 x Velodyne CHT12Q
- Display : 48'' TV and Samsung spa-600b projector

Do you know if a decent budget processor (like chinese dac (topping, sabaj....)) exists ?
I remember the decent processors like Anthem, marrantz, emotiva... are very expensive.

Or maybe the best choice is to take a hometheater processor/amplifier with internal amps turned off like Denon x3600/3700/4700... ? (but actually in france, it's difficult to find with the old DAC (AK4458)

What is the performance of the onkyo tx-rz800 ? I can have one for decent price.

I need a processor with xlr or rca output, which can reach up to 2.35v rms (or around equal or better 2v rms).

Thank you for your help
 
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Dougey_Jones

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Interesting/Rare/Weird processor choice lol..

There are no well performing AVP's worth spending money on at the moment, even if you spend big bucks. Everyone seems to be using well performing receivers as preamps if you already have good amps.

I'd choose between a Denon X3800 if you want Audyssey room correction or an Onkyo RZ50 if you want Dirac.
 

peng

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Unless one cannot wait, it is better to wait for one of the ?x800h reviewed and measured, before purchase.
 
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Mikythebad

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Denon x3700h would be a good choice with my ncore amps (who reach the maximum output level at 2.35vrms) ?
 

peng

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Denon x3700h would be a good choice with my ncore amps (who reach the maximum output level at 2.35vrms) ?

Of course, it can reach >4Vrms without using preamp mode.
 

peng

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Really ? In the Amir's review i saw 2vrms.

That's just the voltage he used for his tests. He typically test rca at 2V and xlr at 4v. However, he did measured one at much higher voltage, > 4V if I remember right. Don't remember which one but I think it was the x6700h. You can search and look.
 
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Mikythebad

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That's just the voltage he used for his tests. He typically test rca at 2V and xlr at 4v. However, he did measured one at much higher voltage, > 4V if I remember right. Don't remember which one but I think it was the x6700h. You can search and look.
Thank you for the information
 

voodooless

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That's just the voltage he used for his tests. He typically test rca at 2V and xlr at 4v. However, he did measured one at much higher voltage, > 4V if I remember right. Don't remember which one but I think it was the x6700h. You can search and look.
Not according to this:
index.php

Specifically Amir mentions:

As you see, peak performance with the amplifiers off is around 1.1 volts with SINAD of 101 dB which is excellent for an AVR. With the amps on, you are OK up to 1.4 volt output before it nose dives. So when selecting an external amplifier for channels beyond fronts, make sure it can output its maximum power at or below 1.4 volts (usually specified as "sensitivity").
 

peng

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Not according to this:
index.php

Specifically Amir mentions:

Thank you, you actually made my point, that you can't just go by Amir's wording on those graphs!!

I mentioned it many times before, I disagree with Amir's choice of "clips at 1.4 volts" because this graph shows 76 dB SINAD at 2 volts. Most would consider at clipping, SINAD of the signal would be about 60 dB, or -60 dB/0.1% THD+N. Even if we want to tighten that for preamps to 0.05%, that would still be 66 dB SINAD so why would we suddenly define 76 dB as the clipping point. Perhaps Amir defines "clipping point" as the point where SINAD would drop precipitously (he probably did say something like that..) and that would be reasonable too, but in this case the drop only look precipitous at 1.4 V because of the scales used in the graph. And the drop levels off at higher voltage, say around 1.7 V or so.

Further, if you consider many of the AV preamp processor or even preamps reviewed and measured here, they scored 75 dB or less SINAD and no one considered them clipping.

The Arcam AV10 is an example:

Would you say this preamp clipped at 0.9 V? It looks more like 4 V to me.

index.php
 
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peng

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And I posted the following more than once too, making the point that those AVRs don't really "clips" at 1.4-1.5 V that Amir referred to, if we go with the more popular "standard" of 0.1% THD+N, or 60 dB SINAD. Stereophile typically uses 1%, but imo (just my opinion) for preamp, 0.1% seems more reasonable.

Below is the graph Gene got from Denon:

image
 

voodooless

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Thank you, you actually made my point, that you can't just go by Amir's wording on those graphs!!

I mentioned it many times before, I disagree with Amir's choice of "clips at 1.4 volts" because this graph shows 76 dB SINAD at 2 volts. Most would consider at clipping, SINAD of the signal would be about 60 dB, or -60 dB/0.1% THD+N. Even if we want to tighten that for preamps to 0.05%, that would still be 66 dB SINAD so why would we suddenly define 76 dB as the clipping point. Perhaps Amir defines "clipping point" as the point where SINAD would drop precipitously (he probably did say something like that..) and that would be reasonable too, but in this case the drop only look precipitous at 1.4 V because of the scales used in the graph. And the drop levels off at higher voltage, say around 1.7 V or so.

Further, if you consider many of the AV preamp processor or even preamps reviewed and measured here, they scored 75 dB or less SINAD and no one considered them clipping.

The Arcam AV10 is an example:

Would you say this preamp clipped at 0.9 V? It looks more like 4 V to me.

index.php
Good point. I would guess that if you were to extend the Denon graph to 5V, you would see roughly the same thing. Clipping it is probably not, but it interacts with the power amps in some way. A simple solution would be to standardize the voltage range you check. 5V Would be a nice minimum for an RCA output of an AVR. As can be seen from the X4700H review, it also can do 4V:

index.php

If you would stop at 2V here, it would look the same as the X3700H (just lower values).
 

peng

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Good point. I would guess that if you were to extend the Denon graph to 5V, you would see roughly the same thing. Clipping it is probably not, but it interacts with the power amps in some way. A simple solution would be to standardize the voltage range you check. 5V Would be a nice minimum for an RCA output of an AVR. As can be seen from the X4700H review, it also can do 4V:

index.php

If you would stop at 2V here, it would look the same as the X3700H (just lower values).

That one was from the first review that had some issues, it is better to look at the one from the 2nd review:

You can see that the down slope changed 3 times, getting gentler each time. And yes, at the 1.4 V level the power amps would have been clipping and that affected the pre out performance, but again did not cause it to clip as such.

index.php
 

Daka

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Depending where you live you might get refurbished Arcam for 60% of original rrp with full warranty. Had both Denon x4700h and now Arcam AVR20 and the latter absolutely demolishes former in both stereo and multichannel performance.
 

Vacceo

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Depending where you live you might get refurbished Arcam for 60% of original rrp with full warranty. Had both Denon x4700h and now Arcam AVR20 and the latter absolutely demolishes former in both stereo and multichannel performance.
With or without EQ?
 

Daka

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With or without EQ?
Both. Audyssey on x4700h was giving me terrible results - flat sound, much worse than without. With Dirac it takes time to learn how to use it to advantage when you do it sounds better with than without.
 

Kael

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An Arcam AVR 21 is also twice the price. I think I'm good for now. Maybe in a couple of years I'll buy [current model] and side by side them.

Honestly, I think the biggest concern for AVR and processor buyers is reliability and stability. No point in buying a £4000 AVR if it has a bunch of issues outputting formats or devices not working with it properly.
 
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Daka

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An Arcam AVR 21 is also twice the price. I think I'm good for now. Maybe in a couple of years I'll buy [current model] and side by side them.

Honestly, I think the biggest concern for AVR and processor buyers is reliability and stability. No point in buying a £4000 AVR if it has a bunch of issues outputting formats or devices not working with it properly.
I had in mind previous model (hdmi 2.0). In UK avr21 is 3800 while you can get AVR20 for under 2k - even with same hdmi 2.1 board it will cost you extra 400 more. That’s smart money.
 

Chrispy

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Depending where you live you might get refurbished Arcam for 60% of original rrp with full warranty. Had both Denon x4700h and now Arcam AVR20 and the latter absolutely demolishes former in both stereo and multichannel performance.
How does one absolutely demolish the other? That sounds vague as well as unlikely.
 
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