Best option out of these 3

[f1shb0n3]

It's all about waiting out my wife... We make decent money, but she is always in saving mode (and I am thankful that she does that cause I would have gone with a much more expensive system had I the choice).

I also appreciate my wife keeping me in check with expensive purchases. What I've learned from experience is that if I can make a convincing argument to her that it's worth it to spend $X to purchase Y, usually it turns out to be a great choice. She've saved me from going forward with too many stupid ideas..

 

[mallow81]

Got everything in and it is amazing!
The ES50s sound great and the ES30 is MUCH bigger than I expected. You know you can see the measurements and not really get an image, but it is more than 4 times bigger than my previous center.
Got a new tv stand to go with the upgrades.
Total (current) system:
Polk Signature Elite ES50 (L+R) ES 30 center
Energy Take Classic satellites for surround and heights
(waiting on the sub - Klipsch r-12sw) also accidentally bought the Yamaha NS-SW500(B). So I can test both and see which is better for my room.
Denon AVR-x4700h.
FITUEYES F02N2461B TV Stand
Also added some simple sound abortion panels to the ceiling to reduce the echo I got from the height channels.

This was the start.

Then got the ES50s in first:

Finally, the rest arrived and did a full rearrangement of the room. (PC behind the screen)

 

[sonitus mirus]

Ha! You will be watching some My Little Pony movie and thinking, this is the best. sound. ever. Congrats on the new setup.

 

[mallow81]

Ha! You will be watching some My Little Pony movie and thinking, this is the best. sound. ever. Congrats on the new setup.

you know what's crazy, outside of the special occasion - it doesn't sound like the massive upgrade I expected.
It seems the Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers punched way above their weight class. Outside of certain epic moments in movies / videos, the Signature Elite center and towers don't sound all that different.
My wife said "is it any different, I can't tell' and it was difficult for me to say otherwise except for a few moments that stood out in terms of dynamic sound and range.
it made it really hard to justify the 3000$ spent on the upgrades....

 

[f1shb0n3]

you know what's crazy, outside of the special occasion - it doesn't sound like the massive upgrade I expected.
It seems the Energy Take Classic 5.1 speakers punched way above their weight class. Outside of certain epic moments in movies / videos, the Signature Elite center and towers don't sound all that different.
My wife said "is it any different, I can't tell' and it was difficult for me to say otherwise except for a few moments that stood out in terms of dynamic sound and range.
it made it really hard to justify the 3000$ spent on the upgrades....

Appreciating full system upgrades is not easy, our audio memory being so short at around 5-10 seconds max. Also it’s easy to A/B compare single speaker, gets harder with stereo and with surround perceptible differences disappear even further, based on Harman/F. Toole research.

The differences in dynamic range heard at “epic” audio scenes is exactly why you would purchase larger speakers.

Justification is subjective as always. I spent $2k to get 4 Atmos height channels and Dirac Live calibration. Differences vs 2 height channels and Audyssey are not immediately apparent (not to my wife for sure), but for me it’s worth it.

Sometimes upgrades won’t get you anything in return, these are learning opportunities to shake off some myths we were condition to believe. Or we placebo ourselves to like them better, there’s nothing wrong with that in my book

 

[mallow81]

So my Klipsch r-12sw finally arrived. I tested it against my Yamaha NS-SW500(B) today.
Based on Erin's tests, the r-12w can hit 15hz (even though its rated down to 29hz). While it does have a pretty steep falloff after 40 hz, it can still hit 15hz at 60db. It does indeed do that too. But I was most impressed that it could hit 20hz at about 95db. So I knew going into this purchase what to expect based on the science.
That said, I couldn't find any real info on the Yamaha. I did some tone tests and it can hit 20hz, but it only starts shinning from over 28hz. So I found this song to really test it, and it didn't really deliver and of the lower sounds. But still, based on it's published ratings of 20-160, I thought it would at least measure up against the Klipsch.
IT. Does. Not.
After even 10 minutes of listening to some music and different movie scenes I've been using to test Atmos and Auro-3d over the last few weeks... Phew. The R-12sw kick the crap out of that poor yamaha.
I was getting used to the Yamaha and even felt that it was good enough - at times it even surprised me with it's output and clarity. But the Klipsch put it to shame and I didn't really expect it to be that night & day.
The song linked above.... wow. totally different.
The stomping of the T-rex in Jurassic park - I felt that beast coming. The Yamaha hinted at it. The Klipsch informed me.

Side note: I love the audyssey multeq xt32on the Denon. I especially like that it has you level the gain of the sub so you know the system is balanced. My last AVR didn't have anything like that so I had to try to just ear it out and never really know for sure.

Anyone desire a 2 week old Yamaha NS-SW500(B)? hahaha, after this post I don't think anyone will...

My last stop will be to get the final Signature Elite es-10 for my surrounds. (and soon the LG C2) .....for a few years at least...
This journey has made me want to dig in so deep to this stuff. I hope it doesn't become my new addiction.
Thank you so much to everyone that assisted me on this journey!! I LOVE MY HOME THEATER!!

 

[beagleman]

If I were in your position, I would look at the best towers within the budget and ignore the center for now. If you position the L and R well, you can create a convincing phantom center at the MLP. Later, as budget allows, you can add a center if you decide you need one. Stands are ultimately a waste of money, unless the mounted speakers are your end-game, or you can re-purpose them for surrounds.

When I bought my F206s, the center was not in stock. That continued for 6 months. My family and I forgot about it, as we were all satisfied with the sound we were getting. When it finally arrived, I installed it, and we all shrugged and said, "OK?" I could turn it off and no one would notice. Is that worth ~$1000?

If you end up with Q550s or Q750s, you could use a single Q150 or 350 on its side as your center. No need to purchase a dedicated "center" if you are using a coaxial and have subs.

How could you NOT notice a center speaker playing?

Not sure how anyone except the person sitting exactly centered between the LEFT and RIGHT speakers would not be able to tell where voices are coming from.

Even my 10 year old daughter, immediately can hear when something is wrong and the center is not activated.....

 

[Beershaun]

How could you NOT notice a center speaker playing?

Not sure how anyone except the person sitting exactly centered between the LEFT and RIGHT speakers would not be able to tell where voices are coming from.

Even my 10 year old daughter, immediately can hear when something is wrong and the center is not activated.....

You just configure your AVR so it knows there is no center speaker. I just use a left and right speaker with my AVR and it works just fine.

 

[Steve Dallas]

How could you NOT notice a center speaker playing?

Not sure how anyone except the person sitting exactly centered between the LEFT and RIGHT speakers would not be able to tell where voices are coming from.

Even my 10 year old daughter, immediately can hear when something is wrong and the center is not activated.....

The point is that many average family members simply do not care.

The person in the center seat benefits from a solid phantom center. The two flankers are otherwise happy with TV speakers and have no interest in hi-fi, as long as they can hear dialog, which they can from their respective side speaker with the center turned off.

 

[beagleman]

You just configure your AVR so it knows there is no center speaker. I just use a left and right speaker with my AVR and it works just fine.

I believe you think I do not understand that.....I do

I was asking how someone using a home theatre could use LEFT and RIGHT (ONLY) and NOT a true center speaker.

TO me not ideal at all.
And yes I know how to configure AVR settings and all that.
I think we simply do not agree on this subject.

 

[mallow81]

I believe you think I do not understand that.....I do

I was asking how someone using a home theatre could use LEFT and RIGHT (ONLY) and NOT a true center speaker.

TO me not ideal at all.
And yes I know how to configure AVR settings and all that.
I think we simply do not agree on this subject.

I passed my older speakers (Take Energy Classics) to a friend that was using 2 channel with phantom center. He claimed he really liked the phantom and didn't need to upgrade, but since I donated these to him he went ahead and changed to 3.1 (and will add surround next week). He told me he couldn't believe how different & impressive it was to have a center channel back.
I have to agree with you Beagle, If you have the option, USE A CENTER.

Sure, the AVR can create a phantom channel, but it's not ideal. It's not how the sound is mastered. There is supposed to be a front sound stage of 3 channels. The sound can't be physically replicated correctly without that.

 

[beagleman]

I passed my older speakers (Take Energy Classics) to a friend that was using 2 channel with phantom center. He claimed he really liked the phantom and didn't need to upgrade, but since I donated these to him he went ahead and changed to 3.1 (and will add surround next week). He told me he couldn't believe how different & impressive it was to have a center channel back.
I have to agree with you Beagle, If you have the option, USE A CENTER.

Sure, the AVR can create a phantom channel, but it's not ideal. It's not how the sound is mastered. There is supposed to be a front sound stage of 3 channels. The sound can't be physically replicated correctly without that.

Exactly~!

The Phantom image, is not the same as 3 discrete channels at all. It is a simulation that at times can sound okay to good, but never quite like the real thing.
Hearing the voices separate on a discrete channel/speaker is different sounding, due to the mixing and mastering of each channel.