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Best no DAC streamer?

there is no "best". it all depends what do you want to do and stream with the streamer -
do you need a remote control (no RC for the mini) ? do you want a display? what streaming services do you plan to use?
Mainly I just want to stream from Qobuz and occasionally Amazon Music. I do like the displays that show the album artwork and Im fine with no remote as long
If you don’t have/refuse to learn any technical knowledge it is easy to be gulled.
Keith
Thats exactly why I was asking. Im trying to learn. People say all sorts of things to sell products. Even asking AI, which isn't my favorite, I get responses like a WiiM gets you 90% of the performance of an Eversolo. Really.....what is the other 10% and is it even Audible? Its like HDMI. Once you have a well built cable with the right specs for the content thats all you need. A $25 cable and a $250 cable wont be different.
 
The 'best' streamer is the one that supports all the functionality you want. Since your AV41 has some streaming capability built in you'll have to be more specific about what you're looking for that you can't do already. The AV41 also includes Dirac Live (and an extra cost option for Bass Control) so you don't need EQ capabilities in the streamer. Similarly it supports AirPlay 2, Chromecast, Roon, Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect, so you don't need those in a separate streamer either.
To be honest I didn't think the AV41 supported Qobuz connext natively. It never shows up as a device but maybe I need to change something. I just got it so Im still figuring it out. Thats really all I needed. Just got a Umik 1 so I can start using Dirac and the sound is already great. I just wanted a streamer since it didn't seem the AV41 natively was going to do that and it seems a Wiim is all I need.
 
Thats exactly why I was asking. Im trying to learn. People say all sorts of things to sell products. Even asking AI, which isn't my favorite, I get responses like a WiiM gets you 90% of the performance of an Eversolo. Really.....what is the other 10% and is it even Audible? Its like HDMI. Once you have a well built cable with the right specs for the content thats all you need. A $25 cable and a $250 cable wont be different.
Lots of things from cases over display and remote to connectivity options in/out to look at.

But a 192/24 pcm signal over optical will be the same no matter how fancy the box is.

Differences can be there with the support for various things. WiiM Ultra does no Airplay2. And I think there is a limit to how high DSD support goes. Just an example.
 
For me the main consideration when choosing which wiim is about the inputs and if I room correction, and if I'm using a sub. I like all my inputs to go through room correction and I like to tweak peq power source, including a TV and turntable (..I know, digital sacrilege..), so I went wiim ultra. In my office I have a mini because it's just going into a headphone dac/amp and all I do is stream. So if all you do is stream and already have a dac then the mini is great, or if you don't intend to use wiim's room correction so all. The remote control point is also worth noting, although I believe you can buy and pair a wiim remote with the mini (?)
 
I'd probably just use the Wiim in your position but a Holo Audio Red is the digital streamer with the best measured performance I recall seeing though:


Note that streaming provider support and the UI are big factors that will affect day to day use as well though.
I am a happy WiiM Mini user but I was not aware that the Mini does not have the following…
This is from the Holo Red Streamer info…
”the solid design significantly reduces the influence of external vibrations and resonances that can have a negative impact on delicate digital audio processing.”

I didn’t realize digital audio processing was so delicate… then I realized it isn’t! Just saved 900 Euros!

I can recommend the Mini as an excellent, accurate, and tested proven streamer and the WiiM software has been great. Highly recommended.
 
Vibrations... my ears would bleed when my phone sends a digital signal. But - nothing.
 
I am a happy WiiM Mini user but I was not aware that the Mini does not have the following…
This is from the Holo Red Streamer info…
”the solid design significantly reduces the influence of external vibrations and resonances that can have a negative impact on delicate digital audio processing.”

I didn’t realize digital audio processing was so delicate… then I realized it isn’t! Just saved 900 Euros!

I can recommend the Mini as an excellent, accurate, and tested proven streamer and the WiiM software has been great. Highly recommended.
Note I linked to this because of the measured performance.
 
I started with a Mini when it first came out. Then came the Pro so I got that. Pro is in my main system connected to a DAC, Mini is in a secondary system, no separate DAC. Pro is connected via Ethernet, Mini is only WiFi.

The WiiM Home app controls both. It's loaded with features: EQ, room correction, etc. I think you can connect the mic to your phone for the room correction.

I stream from 2 sources. Tidal which shows album art (in the app) and a radio station which does not. I have the original remote for the Pro.

Both sound great.

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The cost of a DAC in a streamer is neither here nor there.
A streamer is basically a small compute engine (as little a an RPi), pretty cheap, sure, but adding a DAC as a chip is maybe a conule of dollars. yes, I know it's not quite that simple, as I have made electronic/software products myself.

Things to consider about a streamer are - ease of use, good GUI, maybe a nice display if you spend more, good software support (connect apps for streaming sites may need updating regularly), a remote as well as control via an app or a browser, etc.

You don't have to use the DAC that is in many streamers if you have a better one.

Personally, I would not be happy with the ergonomics of using many units that have rock-bottom prices.
 
You could argue that nearly all streamers use a COTS SOC part related to a Pi...
 
Mainly I just want to stream from Qobuz and occasionally Amazon Music. I do like the displays that show the album artwork and Im fine with no remote as long

Thats exactly why I was asking. Im trying to learn. People say all sorts of things to sell products. Even asking AI, which isn't my favorite, I get responses like a WiiM gets you 90% of the performance of an Eversolo. Really.....what is the other 10% and is it even Audible? Its like HDMI. Once you have a well built cable with the right specs for the content thats all you need. A $25 cable and a $250 cable wont be different.

Music streaming:​

  • Chromecast built-in for streaming over Wi-Fi with a wide range of compatible apps on your mobile device
  • Spotify® Connect lets you play music using the Spotify app on your mobile device (subscription required)
  • Apple AirPlay 2 for easy streaming from an iPhone®, iPad®, or Mac® computer
  • Bluetooth with support for high-quality aptX® HD streaming
  • TIDAL Connect lets you stream high resolution music using the TIDAL app on your smartphone (subscription required)
it doesn't mention Qobuz or Amazon
but a quick search and you get this
Arcam AV41 software update adds Qobuz Connect support

Not sure how many of you are aware that the software version v1.62 2148 for the Arcam AV41 ( AVR31 , AVR21 & AVR11 ) adds support ( finally ) for Qobuz Connect . Updated my AV41 yesterday and the software is working perfectly . Good job Arcam .

i don't think you need a streamer with this amp
 
Hello all. Im really curious about how much you really need to spend, diminishing returns, for a high quality streamer/audio if you dont need a DAC. I have an Arcam AV41 and am extremely happy with the sound but would like a streamer to go with it. I have been told I dont need anything more than a Wiim Ultra or Pro and other say an Eversolo T8( just an example) will have better sound due to Femtosexond clocks and better components. Trying to find out what's true before buying something. Would really appreciate any input because I am new to streamers and really dont know.
Another word for a non-DAC streamer is a computer. Raspberry Pi-based solutions are cheap and effective. You can also dedicate a tablet to the desk to have a nice display. I use them as endpoints for Roon, but there are several pi and android-based streaming solutions, such as as Emby and Volumio, or you can use a chromecast-enabled device or get one of the old Chromecast Audio dongles (now they only make the TV versions, which you can also use).

It's even getting to the point with the new Pi designs that they can support additional computing intensive tasks such as EQ. If you are not too comfortable with tech, I'd recommend getting one pre-built. Although I have to say, burning a streaming OS onto an sd card and rebooting the pi is really easy.

Update: if it's just Qobuz and Amazon, I *think* Chromecast might be simplest. Someone suggested Wiim above, which is pretty cheap, compatible with multiple protocols, and has added features like EQ. The cheapest Wiim is this one, but the Wiim Pro might be more flexible. It's certainly possible to spend more on a streamer, but remember that all you get is functionality and support, not sound improvement (at least no sound improvement that any vendor has even tried to demonstrate, and I predict they never will, as it is a solved problem).
 
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Mainly I just want to stream from Qobuz and occasionally Amazon Music. I do like the displays that show the album artwork and Im fine with no remote as long as I can use my phone.
The guys said Wiims will do this at a decent price, so get one from a supplier with a good returns policy, and don't agonise about claims of which is best - I too like displays with cover art, tag text etc., but I've read in reviews that the Wiim has a sub-Planck-time clock, which is perfect for crossing the event horizon of a black hole and that means you will know if you are running late for a dentist's appointment.
 
I have both Wiim mini and pro.

As streamers connected direct to DAC both are excellent. Pro has more inputs. Both have RoomFit room correction. Pro can have RoomFit + EQ.
 
it doesn't mention Qobuz or Amazon
but a quick search and you get this


i don't think you need a streamer with this amp
That is awesome. Thank you! I just got the AV41 a couple days ago and haven't had time to really research it but initially I couldn't get it to connect. It is on older firmware but I had to order smaller USB drives to update. Over the network it says theres no update but the downloadable firmware is a nuch higher number than what's on the Unit. I read this is common and USB is the best way to update however the Arcams are finicky with drives over 32g or multiple files so I had to get a drive just for that. Anyway sorry for the blabbing but I really appreciate the information!
 
The guys said Wiims will do this at a decent price, so get one from a supplier with a good returns policy, and don't agonise about claims of which is best - I too like displays with cover art, tag text etc., but I've read in reviews that the Wiim has a sub-Planck-time clock, which is perfect for crossing the event horizon of a black hole and that means you will know if you are running late for a dentist's appointment.
Well thats handy as I live on the edge of a black hole.
 
I got a "refurb" Ultra for $240 delivered direct from Linkplay. Added a Mini as an input source for my daughter's Airplay. We really are talking "take the fam out for a nice dinner" type pricing here
 
I'd probably just use the Wiim in your position but a Holo Audio Red is the digital streamer with the best measured performance I recall seeing though:


Note that streaming provider support and the UI are big factors that will affect day to day use as well though.
had also the idea to upgrade to holo red ... then i saw on few places on the net how people prefer Mercury V3 DAC over the holo red (or at least are comparable, but the V3 is 3x cheaper) ... so, got one and i am totally satisfied. Its an very audible upgrade over denafrips iris in my case as a roon renderer. And the iris was actually not bad at all.
 
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had also the idea to upgrade to holo red ... then i saw on few places on the net how people prefer Mercury V3 DAC over the holo red (or at least are comparable, but the V3 is 3x cheaper) ... so, got one and i am totally satisfied. Its an very audible upgrade over denafrips iris in my case as a roon renderer. And the iris was actually not bad at all.

worth reading
Hold on - does this thing have a DAC in it? The Mercury V3 would seem to have a DAC, so is the comparison fair?
The Holo claims to be a streamer, so would you not expect its output to be the same PCM as any other streamer?

Both are RPis in a box - I don't know what the control app is like to get you hooked up to your fave internet platform, but it'd need to be decent to compete with the Wiim's UI.
 
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