Best most open and natural/smooth sounding balanced DAC under $1000?

[Shoaibexpert]

Hi,

I've been thinking of upgrading my SMSL SU 8 (yeah! Way deep into this rabbit hole!!)...and so I am wanting to hear thoughts and experiences with DACs under $1000 mark that would pose as genuine upgrades to the SU 8 in terms of sound quality, naturalness and smoothness. I'm kinda not liking the edgy sound of ESS based SU 8 DAC on my THX 789 and Hifiman Arya ... and presume the M500 would sound equally edgy...thinking of AKM based DACs are more musical. Also considering Denafrips Ares as it's a R-2R DAC and perhaps is smoother. Any help in suggesting a DAC upgrade would be helpful...and thanks in advance!

 

[flowjm]

It's somewhat out of your budget, but if you're looking for a smooth, natural, musical (dare I say, analogue?) DAC, then you can't do better than TotalDAC. Stereophile and Steve Guttenberg can't be wrong!

 

[Shoaibexpert]

It's somewhat out of your budget, but if you're looking for a smooth, natural, musical (dare I say, analogue?) DAC, then you can't do better than TotalDAC. Stereophile and Steve Guttenberg can't be wrong!

Steve was crazy about the Denafrips Ares too

 

[BDWoody]

It's somewhat out of your budget, but if you're looking for a smooth, natural, musical (dare I say, analogue?) DAC, then you can't do better than TotalDAC. Stereophile and Steve Guttenberg can't be wrong!

I hope you are joking...

 

[garbulky]

I can already tell you you're not going to get much help here. By measurements the SMSL has inaudible levels of distortion so most will tell you it can't be improved for music listening.
I have listened to the Denafrips Ares and I would reccomend against it. Neither me nor the owner liked it (subjective, no dbt test perfromed).

 

[Shoaibexpert]

It's somewhat out of your budget, but if you're looking for a smooth, natural, musical (dare I say, analogue?) DAC, then you can't do better than TotalDAC. Stereophile and Steve Guttenberg can't be wrong!

Total DAC is Eur 4700 cheapest...nope...not my budget at all

 

[VintageFlanker]

@Shoaibexpert,
Obviously, @flowjm was joking. Nobody on ASR should care about what Steve is crazy about...

 

[Shoaibexpert]

I can already tell you you're not going to get much help here. By measurements the SMSL has inaudible levels of distortion so most will tell you it can't be improved for music listening.
I have listened to the Denafrips Ares and I would reccomend against it. Neither me nor the owner liked it (subjective, no dbt test perfromed).

Thanks. Just to reaffirm, you're saying Denafrips Ares isn't recommended although it's a R2R DAC? Which DAC would you recommend then? I mean the measurements dont tell ya how hot it is on the treble and stuff or how edgy it sounds...

 

[Shoaibexpert]

@Shoaibexpert,
Obviously, @flowjm was joking. Nobody on ASR should care about what Steve is crazy about...

Thanks. Any recommendations then?

 

[dc655321]

I mean the measurements dont tell ya how hot it is on the treble and stuff or how edgy it sounds...

Uh huh...

 

[VintageFlanker]

I mean the measurements dont tell ya how hot it is on the treble and stuff or how edgy it sounds...

Oh oh. Yes measurements tell about all these. Either Frequency response or harmonic/intermodulation distortion may indicate harshness in the sound...

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Uh huh...

Haha...I'm hoping it doesn't at least

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Oh oh. Yes measurements tell about all these. Either Frequency response or harmonic/intermodulation distortion may indicate harshness in the sound...

Ok. So if the DAC is clean...means it's supposed to sound as good or rich as a day $3000 Matrix Element X or other superior PRO chip based...just reconfirming as I'm not an expert or sound engineer...coz people swear by these high end DACs and their sound quality characteristics...

 

[murraycamp]

I mean the measurements dont tell ya how hot it is on the treble and stuff or how edgy it sounds...

I was where you were before I stared digging into the science and engineering. There is tons of solid information on ASR. It will be an eye-opening experience.

 

[BDWoody]

Thanks. Just to reaffirm, you're saying Denafrips Ares isn't recommended although it's a R2R DAC? Which DAC would you recommend then? I mean the measurements dont tell ya how hot it is on the treble and stuff or how edgy it sounds...

Well, a DAC that adds noise and distortion beyond easily reached (transparent) thresholds either by design or poor engineering is generally not high on most lists around here.

If a DAC does its job properly, it shouldn't sound like anything...

People generally hear what they expect to, unless listening is done with some controls in place.

 

[dc655321]

Do you have Version 1 or Version 2 of the SU-8 (measurements here)?
V1 may have problems. V2 certainly does not.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Ok. So if the DAC is clean...means it's supposed to sound as good or rich as a day $3000 Matrix Element X or other superior PRO chip based

Yes.

Not all DACs sound the same... But every competently engineered DAC should sound the same...Meaning: transparent. The purpose is to convert digital to analog properly, not to act as a tone control (unless you want to, with specific filters or DSP).

 

[digititus]

Save your money. Buy more music. Do something nice for someone. The benefits will be more tangible.

 

[Shoaibexpert]

Would AKM based

Do you have Version 1 or Version 2 of the SU-8 (measurements here)?
V1 may have problems. V2 certainly does not.

V2 mate...from what I'm hearing...it doesn't get better than SU8 or similar measuring DACs ...regardless of the money you throw

 

[garbulky]

Thanks. Just to reaffirm, you're saying Denafrips Ares isn't recommended although it's a R2R DAC? Which DAC would you recommend then? I mean the measurements dont tell ya how hot it is on the treble and stuff or how edgy it sounds...

There are measurements that can tell you if the treble is tipped up etc. However I doubt you can simply say exactly how it would sound to you using just measurements. For that you would have to listen to it.

That's correct I am not reccomending the Denafrips. I thought it wasn't worth the money.
The only DACs I can reccomend are the ones I've listened to and liked. I have not performed any dbt tests on them. The following are just my impressions. And before I get in to that .... you should know that almost all the dacs you listen to nowadays have distortion products that are supposed to be inaudible. So getting one that has vastly less distortion doesn't mean it will sound any better. And getting one with more distortion doesn't mean it will sound worse - at least if you go by measurements.

The best overall DAC I have heard is the Emotiva DC-1. It uses an Analog devices dac (dual). Couple that to say an Emotiva bas x A-100 for the headphone amp and you can have a really nice combination. The SMSL however measures way better than either of these just so oyu know.

If you are interested in R2R, I have listened to the Schiit Gungnir multibit which uses four multibit R2R chips. In subjective non dbt comparisons (though it was level matched to about 0.5 db), I thought the Gungnir felt significantly larger in the sound of instruments. It was easier to locate the different instruments. However the Emotiva DC-1 had more subtle detail in the treble and felt more "airy" (and had a remote). I rate both the Gungnir Multibit and the DC-1 as the best DACs I've heard. The other was the Mytek Liberty (which was Saber based).
They sound somewhat different to each other but not by a country mile. The sound wasn't worth the price difference but the sound was quite good. If you are interested in measurements the Gungnir multibit probably does not measure anywhere close to as good as your SMSL.