"Best" mic for Dirac Live

[Sal1950]

I would point the UMIK-1 mic at the ceiling in each spot for a Dirac calibration, correct?

Yes

Just happened to think... what about when Dirac gets to my 4 ceiling Atmos channels? Do I turn the mic parallel to the floor for those measurements?

No

Yes, and use the "90 degree" cal file.

Yep
With Dirac you are attempting to do in-room response measurements at the MLP.

Now OTOH if you were trying to measure the speaker or it's individual drivers, you point the mic directly at the speaker closely at like 6" to eliminate the room and use the horizontal/direct calibration file. Lot's and lot's of if, and's and but's here and I am by far no expert.

 

[lewdish]

I know this is an old post now but if I already own a Earthworks M23 or M30 mic, can I use it w/ Dirac?

 

[BJL]

I know this is an old post now but if I already own a Earthworks M23 or M30 mic, can I use it w/ Dirac?

Do you have calibration file for the mic? If so, give it a try.

 

[lewdish]

Do you have calibration file for the mic? If so, give it a try.

I do!

 

[BJL]

I do!

That's great! You should be fine. I have found Dirac to be very forgiving on the hardware side. I have a UMIK-2 mic, and the Emotiva mic that was bundled with my processor. I have had good results with both, even though theoretically the UMIK-2 is a "better" mic.

 

[southisup]

I recall reading a very generalised comment, somewhere on a forum, to the effect that the UMIK-1 would give improved Dirac Live results over an AVR's included microphone, but not massively so – because the OEM mics actually are quite decent at their job. I take that to mean, in an untreated room, with poor layout (asymmetric), it's not going to feel like the USD $179 (delivered cost, for me) is especially worthwhile, but with a reasonably treated and laid out room then it probably becomes the next ‘low hanging fruit’ with regards to appreciable improvements.

Is this a reasonable understanding, or am I actually likely to experience significant improvements using a UMIK-1, despite a very suboptimal room?

Background, probably not important to read:
I have an Integra 3.4 with Kef R3 stereo pair (non-meta, no subs). Room is semi-open plan, high, medium-steep sloped ceiling, with the setup in a corner at the high end of the space, speakers stood appropriately off the wall, firing at a couch 2 metres away, towards the low end of the room. The room is very vaguely 6m square, with the narrower kitchen separated by a roughly two-thirds room-height set of cabinets, from the low end of the room to three-quarters towards the high end. Movies and music sound great on the couch, regardless of room correction, but not very engaging anywhere else in the room – this is a compromise I accept.

 

[BJL]

I recall reading a very generalised comment, somewhere on a forum, to the effect that the UMIK-1 would give improved Dirac Live results over an AVR's included microphone, but not massively so – because the OEM mics actually are quite decent at their job. I take that to mean, in an untreated room, with poor layout (asymmetric), it's not going to feel like the USD $179 (delivered cost, for me) is especially worthwhile, but with a reasonably treated and laid out room then it probably becomes the next ‘low hanging fruit’ with regards to appreciable improvements.

Is this a reasonable understanding, or am I actually likely to experience significant improvements using a UMIK-1, despite a very suboptimal room?

Background, probably not important to read:
I have an Integra 3.4 with Kef R3 stereo pair (non-meta, no subs). Room is semi-open plan, high, medium-steep sloped ceiling, with the setup in a corner at the high end of the space, speakers stood appropriately off the wall, firing at a couch 2 metres away, towards the low end of the room. The room is very vaguely 6m square, with the narrower kitchen separated by a roughly two-thirds room-height set of cabinets, from the low end of the room to three-quarters towards the high end. Movies and music sound great on the couch, regardless of room correction, but not very engaging anywhere else in the room – this is a compromise I accept.

I have used a UMIK-1 (sold it) and UMIK-2 (still have but will sell eventually) that I bought when I had a MiniDSP SHD, which did not come with a bundled mic, and now an Emotiva mic, which came with my processor. I got good results from all three mics. In audio, you can spend endless amounts of money. I personally would not suggest purchasing a UMIK-1 (or 2) unless you are not happy with the results from whatever mic you currently own. Unless you feel like experimenting just for the fun of it.

I have never done any room treatments whatsoever. The sound quality after calibrating with Dirac has always worked for me. I prefer to spend my time listening to music rather than tweaking the room or anything else, but others do enjoy and report getting great results from the additional effort. It's all a matter of how you want to spend your time and money, and the extent to which you want to expend time/money, and engage with the audio hobbyist aspect.

 

[pogo]

The UMIK-1 seems to be less suitable for Dirac Live: Link
My Quick & Dirty measurements also went in this direction: Link

 

[southisup]

good results from all three mics.

Thanks, reassuring.

rather than tweaking the room

Yes, there's no likelihood of a tweakable space in my medium-term future.

UMIK-1 seems to be less suitable for Dirac Live: Link

post-99941
USB mics that use an internal clock, like UMIK-2, deliver very stable timing. USB mics that rely on the USB clock, like UMIK-1 and presumably UMM-6, are at the mercy of the stability of the USB clock.

Thanks for the links. Interesting.

I think I'll try to find a decent boom mic stand, and clamp that'll hold the puck mic, to make calibrations much quicker and simpler than they currently are with a cheap camera tripod.

 

[BJL]

I think I'll try to find a decent boom mic stand, and clamp that'll hold the puck mic, to make calibrations much quicker and simpler than they currently are with a cheap camera tripod.

Some might find it heretical, but I stopped using a mic stand years ago; when I calibrate, I sit in the main listening position and hold the mic in my hand from the bottom. If it is a puck mic, I would suggest using some kind of attachment to hold on to and skip the stand. It is in my opinion a massive waste of time (and money, if you are purchasing), to mess with mic stands and the like, and kind of exhausting. I discovered that my measurements were much, much faster when I skipped using stands, and there was no difference with the result. I do wear hearing protection when I calibrate.

I used a mic stand maybe three times. I found it so annoying that one day I did a calibration using the mic handheld, and it worked just as well, maybe even better, than using the stand, and it was much faster. I returned the stand and have never looked back.

The only downside to the puck mic might be frequency response at the low end. If you aren't happy with the result you might consider one of the UMIK mics. As I understand it the 2 (vs the 1) has a wider range and better handling of the low frequencies, but I might be incorrect, this is just my recollection from the time that I bought the mic, and as I mentioned, I got good results from both the 1 and 2 (and the Emotiva bundled mic.)

 

[pogo]

better handling of the low frequencies

That's correct.
Due to the high self-noise of the UMIK-1, there is often a masking effect that leads to thinner bass results. This problem is non-existent with a UMIK-2.

 

[OCA]

FYI I have heard a number of complaints from Mac owners about a bug with Mac, Umik-1 and Dirac which is not being solved since months. They are having to downgrade Dirac version.

 

[southisup]

sit in the main listening position and hold the mic in my hand from the bottom. … much, much faster when I skipped using stands, and there was no difference with the result

The technique of waving the mic in semi-random circles or figure-eights always appealed to me, but I was sure Dirac required the mic completely stationary, not even a small handheld wobble being acceptable. Is that not the case?

 

[sheninat0r]

Dirac Live user manual says in the first sentence of the Measurement Procedure section to "remember to keep the microphone perfectly still".

 

[BJL]

The technique of waving the mic in semi-random circles or figure-eights always appealed to me, but I was sure Dirac required the mic completely stationary, not even a small handheld wobble being acceptable. Is that not the case?

I don't wave the mic randomly or in figure 8's. I follow the Dirac on screen instructions precisely. It works just fine. Try it.

I'm not the only person who has skipped the tripod. Look at paragraph 6 in this link, which is a review of Audyssey.

Audyssey Room EQ Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[southisup]

I don't wave the mic randomly

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound facetious, I was referring to this technique:
youtube.com/watch?v=2i5QU8__mq4 [Kali Audio The Moving Mic Measurement Method Charles Sprinkle The Hi-Fi Summit 2020 Q2]
But equally, when delays are being calculated in milliseconds, I just don't see how the human hand's natural ‘tremor’ won't invalidate results. I'm not refusing to try it, I'm simply too time poor (hence the boom stand) to see a chance to do so any time soon. For me, with my speakers etc, with room correction I don't experience night and day improvements, it's more that I find it less fatiguing long term, or that it's rarer I'll notice a note or effect that ‘sounds wrong’ – that's very subjective, and not something I can quickly validate (or otherwise) handholding with.

Dirac Live user manual says

Thanks, makes sense to me. Curiously, my amp's manual makes no equivalent stipulation, only:

us-integrasupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/18336484970644-DRX-3-4-Dirac-Live
have a tripod ready

 

[BJL]

For me, with my speakers etc, with room correction I don't experience night and day improvements, it's more that I find it less fatiguing long term, or that it's rarer I'll notice a note or effect that ‘sounds wrong’ – that's very subjective, and not something I can quickly validate (or otherwise) handholding with.

Interesting, I do find with Dirac engaged it is a night and day difference. My already excellent speakers are elevated to ethereal, and well recorded music becomes like an out of body experience. If I switch between Dirac engaged and "direct" (no processing), the difference is radical.

Perhaps you should consider a USB calibration mic (whichever is reasonably priced where you live) and calibrate Dirac from your PC or Mac whatever.

Everyone is different, if you think that you can't hold the mic steadily enough, then certainly use a stand; otherwise, taking 9 to 13 different measurement positions, whatever tremors may exist are, I am certain, immaterial. It takes me about 15 minutes to measure 7.1 speakers, handheld.

 

[Sammy135]

I have used a UMIK-1 (sold it) and UMIK-2 (still have but will sell eventually) that I bought when I had a MiniDSP SHD, which did not come with a bundled mic, and now an Emotiva mic, which came with my processor. I got good results from all three mics. In audio, you can spend endless amounts of money. I personally would not suggest purchasing a UMIK-1 (or 2) unless you are not happy with the results from whatever mic you currently own. Unless you feel like experimenting just for the fun of it.

I have never done any room treatments whatsoever. The sound quality after calibrating with Dirac has always worked for me. I prefer to spend my time listening to music rather than tweaking the room or anything else, but others do enjoy and report getting great results from the additional effort. It's all a matter of how you want to spend your time and money, and the extent to which you want to expend time/money, and engage with the audio hobbyist aspect.

Thank you...

I've always HATED how long it takes to do a dirac setup. I will try this next time I have to do one, and skip the mic boom, and maybe even look forward towards doing it lol.

 

[BJL]

Thank you...

I've always HATED how long it takes to do a dirac setup. I will try this next time I have to do one, and skip the mic boom, and maybe even look forward towards doing it lol.

On the general concept of not letting perfection get in the way of the good, I have taken an approach that makes it easy to take measurements quickly and get a good result. I'm sure that it's imperfect, but if I tried to do the perfect approach, I'd probably never update or experiment. PS I am staying with the UMIK-2 mic as that's what I have and it is too much trouble to replace it with anything else. PPS It takes me 10 minutes or less to calibrate a 7.1 set up.