Best horn speakers under $7500/pair

[Shiva]

Here is another line of speakers to do some reading about, from JTR..

Home Theater — JTR Speakers

www.jtrspeakers.com

 

[fpitas]

What I’ve read is that the horn provides acoustic coupling between the driver and the air in the room. That is, a typical dome tweeter faces very little mechanical impedance when operating. A horn increases the load faced by the driver, which increases its efficiency.

On that note (pun intended), a waveguide has very little horn loading but is used mainly to control the pattern.

 

[Chris A]

To what might this phenomenon be attributed?

My guess is that the horn can easily put out tremendous peaks compared to cone drivers, without requiring much drive power.

What I’ve read is that the horn provides acoustic coupling between the driver and the air in the room. That is, a typical dome tweeter faces very little mechanical impedance when operating. A horn increases the load faced by the driver, which increases its efficiency.

An excerpt:

(written by Bruce Edgar, Contributing Editor - Speaker Builder Magazine, 4/89)

…“We built a little box with a 4-inch driver in it and made it adaptable so that a horn could be fitted on it. When you measure the response (Fig. 1), you see 15dB difference between the two conditions of direct radiation and horn loading.

The frequency modulation distortion products (Fig. 2) for the direct radiator are 25dB down. With a horn on the driver (Fig. 3). the distortion products are 50dB down. So you have a 25dB [decrease] in distortion with a 15dB increase in efficiency.”

The horn-loaded loudspeaker doesn't audibly compress dynamics (i.e., compression distortion). You can drive the horn-loaded loudspeaker with 1/50th the power needed for the same on-axis SPL as using the same driver in direct radiating mode. The most objectionable form of distortion (modulation distortion, i.e., the "mud factor") is also effectively eliminated.

Chris

 

[fpitas]

The most objectionable form of distortion (modulation distortion, i.e., the "mud factor") is also effectively eliminated.

That's an important distinction between horns and waveguides.

 

[Chr1]

Apologies if this is a daft question, but is this a function of their sensitivity? I am aware that horns have high sensitivity, but am unclear on whether the benefits mentioned here are specifically because of this.

 

[fpitas]

Apologies if this is a daft question, but is this a function of their sensitivity? I am aware that horns have high sensitivity, but am unclear on whether the benefits mentioned here are specifically because of this.

Not really. That's sort of a nice side-effect, though. Horns were initially developed for cinema to allow the flea power tube amps of the time to be useful.

 

[tjjrx7]

It all depends on your room size and listening environment. Horns themselves are a tool with their own sets of parameters. Big horns in a small room have problems. Small horns in a big room also have problems. You have to match the horn to the listening room.

Can you tell us more about your setup or your vision in order to give you some better recommendations?

 

[Tom C]

If you want new then an option is the next tier down, the 4347, reviewed by Amir, about $7,500 at the time, full price.
Probably still within your price when on sale.

Did you mean 4349? When I search for JBL 4347, I find nothing. AFAIK, there is no such animal. As for 4349, they are discontinued (along with 4367), and no longer available new.

 

[kemmler3D]

I think it is possible to DIY JBL M2s for less than $7500.

But if it were me I'd also be looking into the MEH world.

 

[Tom C]

If you think about it, horns are actually older than speakers. The first generation Western Electric cinema speaker used a horn and driver diaphragm originally developed for use with pre-tube phonographs, 100% mechanical without electricity.

 

[fpitas]

If you think about it, horns are actually older than speakers. The first generation Western Electric cinema speaker used a horn and driver diaphragm originally developed for use with pre-tube phonographs, 100% mechanical without electricity.

And before that, hunting horns.

 

[tjjrx7]

Apologies if this is a daft question, but is this a function of their sensitivity? I am aware that horns have high sensitivity, but am unclear on whether the benefits mentioned here are specifically because of this.

A horn can be as simple as a rolled up piece of paper shaped into a cone. The horn by itself can not produce any sound. So what does a horn do? A horn acts as an impedance matching device.

Imagine I dumped 1 cubic foot of feathers onto a table and told you to push as many feathers as you can with your fist. You aren't going to be very efficient are you? But what if I put all those feathers inside of a cone and told you to push as many feathers as you can by pushing on the bottom of the cone with your fist. Now you are going to move a lot of feathers.

Same thing is happening with a driver and air. A regular driver is literally just punching free air in a room. The larger the driver, the larger the fist, but it is still inefficient and requires a lot of excursion to push enough air to hit some required spl level. A horn will couple the driver to the air which means the driver not only has to work less to move more air, but it also doesn't have to have as much excursion to move the required amount of air for a given spl level either.

Different horns coupled to the same exact driver will create different loading characteristics, different bandwidths, distortion characteristics, etc.

 

[Chris A]

Apologies if this is a daft question, but is this a function of their sensitivity? I am aware that horns have high sensitivity, but am unclear on whether the benefits mentioned here are specifically because of this.

Not daft at all. What you are tinkering with is what I've called "Klipsch's Law":

The higher the efficiency of the loudspeaker, the lower the (modulation) distortion.

Sensitivity is nothing but power efficiency (converting electrical power to acoustic power) measured in volts (potential) rather than power (amperes x volts).

Chris

 

[geol]

As with all speakers, the diy is the most rewarding option. There are high-efficiency midrange/tweeters (100 dB/W/m and above) that eliminate the need for horns, which have the disadvantage of projecting sound. A 15" or 18" woofer is always preferable (but some 12" woofers are perfectly adequate). There's certainly an audiophile group near you; otherwise, check classified ads for used equipment if you're not handy.

 

[Flaesh]

I think it is possible to DIY JBL M2s for less than $7500.

But if it were me I'd also be looking into the MEH world.

It's possible. But I'm not sure @Mort is going to DIY.
"Unison Research Max2" can be done cheaper or even more cheaper, a friend recently diy a pair for ~$1111 (15PR400, XT1464, 3" phragm Lavoce), but he glued and painted the boxes himself.

I use subwoofers, so I cut out the unnecessary excess part in the photo.
One don't have to cut and glue them yourself; you can order the drawers in your desired finish.
One can simply place the waveguide on top and try out different WGs.

 

[HiMu]

Just to add.
I've had several visits from various hifi enthusiasts to listen to my Multi Entry Horns over the last year.
3 of them are actively building MEHs now, 1 is planning to!

Same here. 3 people are currently building the Hinson MEH's after visiting my place and one decided to build the JMOD MEH.

What should I be considering? What models are pretty neutral?

If partial diy is acceptable, the JMOD MEH (PA version of the Hinson's) can be bought as cnc cut flatpack, requires a sub... or 6. The Hinsons can be used without a sub (with reservations) and are better suited to home listening/HiFi. Price difference of speaker elements is quite small (B&C Speakers 10nw76 vs 12ndl88), the coaxial compression drivers are somewhat expensive, both use the same model DCX464. Both of those goes well within your budget.

 

[IngMishael]

I'd really love to try a good horn speaker. I know a bit about the theory behind them but less about the consumer options and prices. Maybe $7500 / pair,?

What should I be considering? What models are pretty neutral?

why not try an HT-12 v2 from DIYSG first to get your feet in the horn game. Ask Matt Grant here - http://www.hificircuit.com/community/threads/ht-12-upgrade-crossover.5891/#post-13290

 

[Space is the place]

Ive got minimal experience of horns at home, but when i had the JBL Arrays, i bought them because of their in flat frequency response- at least in mids and treble.
I bought them unheard, i expected them to have some kind of obvious artifact to the sound, but they had none of that at all, they could conjure up a "being there" soundstage on certain live recordings and they had little compression, they sounded very colourful, getting the timbres right of instruments and voices, they made my HD650s sound bland and grey.
The Arrays were not low sensitivity, as the 14 inch woofer wasn't as sensitive as other JBL drivers, i'm not sure how the newer, more sensitive JBL's compare.

 

[DanielT]

Funnily enough was talking to someone earleir this week who's DIY'd some Jospeh Crowe's and now he's building some Danleys...

Why is that?

To my eyes, at least, the Back-loaded horn No. 2095 looks like a classic back-loaded horn. That’s a proven concept, isn’t it? It ought to sound good, surely?

Or was it a comment on one of Joseph Crowe's other horn constructions/designs?

 

[Space is the place]

Why is that?

To my eyes, at least, the Back-loaded horn No. 2095 looks like a classic back-loaded horn. That’s a proven concept, isn’t it? It ought to sound good, surely?

Or was it a comment on one of Joseph Crowe's other horn constructions/designs?

I don't think there any reason other than he's trying lots of different types of speakers, no critisim of the Joseph Crowe's, they look (and no doubt sound fantastic), i'd love to have a listen to them and the Danleys.