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best high end headphones (budget 3k)
- Thread starter goldsoundz
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I have found a drop off of quality at certain caps, this is my arbitrary opinion on the matter.
Drop off caps imo, and their severity.
75% Better (Soft Cap) $150 (HE4XX, HD560S)
30% Better (Hard Cap) $250 (HD6XX, Sundara, AKG Offerings, Cheap planars)
20% Better (Hard Cap) $500 (Hifiman Edition XS, OG Ananda, Austrian Audio)
10% Better (Soft Cap) $800 (Audeze LCD2, Meze 109 Pro, Ananda Stealth)
5% Better (Hard Cap) $1600 (Audeze LCD-X, Audeze MM500, Arya Stealth, HD800S)
2% Better (Soft Cap) $3000 (HE1000, Meze Empyrean, Meze Elite, Audeze MX4, some Stax)
<1% Better (Hard Cap) $6000 (Susvara, Audeze CRBN, Stax)
My favorites in order based off of currently owned or previously owned.
1. LCD-X
2. LCD2 Closed
3. Austrian Audio Hi-X60
4. Hifiman Ananda
5. Hifiman Sundara
6. Focal Clear
7. Sennheiser HD650
8. Hifiman HE4XX
9. Focal Elegia
Drop off caps imo, and their severity.
75% Better (Soft Cap) $150 (HE4XX, HD560S)
30% Better (Hard Cap) $250 (HD6XX, Sundara, AKG Offerings, Cheap planars)
20% Better (Hard Cap) $500 (Hifiman Edition XS, OG Ananda, Austrian Audio)
10% Better (Soft Cap) $800 (Audeze LCD2, Meze 109 Pro, Ananda Stealth)
5% Better (Hard Cap) $1600 (Audeze LCD-X, Audeze MM500, Arya Stealth, HD800S)
2% Better (Soft Cap) $3000 (HE1000, Meze Empyrean, Meze Elite, Audeze MX4, some Stax)
<1% Better (Hard Cap) $6000 (Susvara, Audeze CRBN, Stax)
My favorites in order based off of currently owned or previously owned.
1. LCD-X
2. LCD2 Closed
3. Austrian Audio Hi-X60
4. Hifiman Ananda
5. Hifiman Sundara
6. Focal Clear
7. Sennheiser HD650
8. Hifiman HE4XX
9. Focal Elegia
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Sgt. Ear Ache
Major Contributor
hmmmm...I'm going to suggest those percentages are dubious at best.
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Absolutely, subjective opinions without any way to demonstrate or quantify (which is why its not a claim) would accurately be described as dubious.
Some people simply enjoy spending money on things they enjoy doing, even if it is not required to have a good time. In many hobbies it is common that spending high amounts of money means you can get a better experience, so when both of these align its a win-win for the consumer and sellers/manufacturers.
Sound reproduction is quite different in that spending lots of money unknowingly does not guarantee high fidelity, and in the current market spending more money can actually work against you and give you a worse experience if sound quality is the primary concern. This is explained clearly both objectively and with subjective models in the literature, and there there is a century of rigorous science behind it. You can learn more about that by treading through the forums or reading the requisite material that is usually cited. The technical performance of electronics and transducers are corroborated by good quality measurements from 3rd party sites such as ASR and others.
One may be completely content with or even blown away a very expensive "high-end" system, but many here won't consider it a "win" or a "sound purchase decision" because the purchaser often could have had better (or at least the same) for less. Getting something for less might not concern customer if they have ample cash or a high budget, but better should still be appealing regardless of the size of the budget. Most very expensive audio components that perform admirably tend to either be outliers or clearly surpassed by cheaper alternatives. People here are skeptical of, and hard on "high-end" (synonymous to "high-priced"), and default to suggesting cheaper ones because it is simply usually the correct choice for most, and we have evidence and receipts to back it up. Educating a prospective consumer and having them get the best performance for their dollar is more in line of the MO of the membership here, but many are still capable of suggesting alternatives if there's contravening criteria or information that can be used to better help someone.
Bear in mind a budget of $3000 includes 99.99% of headphones. Research has shown there is virtually no positive correlation of fidelity to price, meaning that for this budget the wealth of options are endless. Most well-regarded headphones are perhaps in the $160-450 range, with some tangible benefits like extra low distortion and better build quality/rebustness/comfort at higher price points of $500-800, while maybe there's a limited few around the $1500-1800 range. Whether or not you are willing to use EQ affects purchase decisions greatly as there are many lower cost headphones that do not sound ideal out of the box but otherwise have amazing comfort, low distortion and so on. For example, EQ can allow you to get an better overall experience from a $420 Dan Clark planar headphone versus a $2000-4000 headphone that is not using EQ. And EQing that $2000-4000 headphone may not necessarily make it any much better than the cheaper EQ'd one.
Sound reproduction is quite different in that spending lots of money unknowingly does not guarantee high fidelity, and in the current market spending more money can actually work against you and give you a worse experience if sound quality is the primary concern. This is explained clearly both objectively and with subjective models in the literature, and there there is a century of rigorous science behind it. You can learn more about that by treading through the forums or reading the requisite material that is usually cited. The technical performance of electronics and transducers are corroborated by good quality measurements from 3rd party sites such as ASR and others.
One may be completely content with or even blown away a very expensive "high-end" system, but many here won't consider it a "win" or a "sound purchase decision" because the purchaser often could have had better (or at least the same) for less. Getting something for less might not concern customer if they have ample cash or a high budget, but better should still be appealing regardless of the size of the budget. Most very expensive audio components that perform admirably tend to either be outliers or clearly surpassed by cheaper alternatives. People here are skeptical of, and hard on "high-end" (synonymous to "high-priced"), and default to suggesting cheaper ones because it is simply usually the correct choice for most, and we have evidence and receipts to back it up. Educating a prospective consumer and having them get the best performance for their dollar is more in line of the MO of the membership here, but many are still capable of suggesting alternatives if there's contravening criteria or information that can be used to better help someone.
Bear in mind a budget of $3000 includes 99.99% of headphones. Research has shown there is virtually no positive correlation of fidelity to price, meaning that for this budget the wealth of options are endless. Most well-regarded headphones are perhaps in the $160-450 range, with some tangible benefits like extra low distortion and better build quality/rebustness/comfort at higher price points of $500-800, while maybe there's a limited few around the $1500-1800 range. Whether or not you are willing to use EQ affects purchase decisions greatly as there are many lower cost headphones that do not sound ideal out of the box but otherwise have amazing comfort, low distortion and so on. For example, EQ can allow you to get an better overall experience from a $420 Dan Clark planar headphone versus a $2000-4000 headphone that is not using EQ. And EQing that $2000-4000 headphone may not necessarily make it any much better than the cheaper EQ'd one.
Well, at least quote me in full. You left out my clear qualifier of "If one has an unlimited budget". Well, in this case, $3000. In what situation do you anticipate needing to use more than 3.4W per channel of the RME, let alone the 4.8W of the A90..? For most, giving up that 1.4W of power is a no-brainer in order to get all the features of the RME including PEQ, loudness compensation, multiple configurable outputs, a state of the art ADC, digital out, mute button, remote and so on. I agree that a computer may be a better vehicle for DSP, but having the option on the device offers versatility with different/multiple sources (including analogue), multiple devices and outputs.
Not even remotely true. The much cheaper Topping DX3 Pro+ or similar will power any DCA headphone to near ear-damaging levels if not beyond with ease. Even the $100 dinky DX1 can do this. Many people power DCAs phones off cheap $20 USB-C dongles perfectly fine.
Soria Moria
Senior Member
Don't get the MDR-Z1R, I owned it before. Here's what I said about it another thread:
The MDR-Z1R was the last headphone I had before I decided I had enough of being an audiophool. It has unacceptable peaks in the response and is a little muddy. I've tried to fix it with EQ but I just can't get it to work. This is what Oratory1990 had to say about EQing the headphone:
'It has very narrow-band (high-Q) resonances in the treble, and deviates rather strongly from the target (any target) in the kHz region too.
On top of that it varies quite a bit with exact positioning.
All of which are factors that make a headphone hard to be EQ'd.'
I'm done with over-ears. They are all flawed it seems. Sold all of mine and now I only use loudspeakers and IEMs.
The MDR-Z1R was the last headphone I had before I decided I had enough of being an audiophool. It has unacceptable peaks in the response and is a little muddy. I've tried to fix it with EQ but I just can't get it to work. This is what Oratory1990 had to say about EQing the headphone:
'It has very narrow-band (high-Q) resonances in the treble, and deviates rather strongly from the target (any target) in the kHz region too.
On top of that it varies quite a bit with exact positioning.
All of which are factors that make a headphone hard to be EQ'd.'
I'm done with over-ears. They are all flawed it seems. Sold all of mine and now I only use loudspeakers and IEMs.
juliangst
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I have a different experience with my Aeon Noires.
The 5.5W@32Ohms of my A30 Pro are barely enough.
(Technically speaking, the Aeons only get 1.5-2W because the voltage of this amps and most other amps in that price range drops at the those low 12 Ohm of the aeons).
I‘m sure that the RME can drive the Expanse to good levels, but for an endgame setup I would want an amp that can provide even more power than that.
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I had a similar experience with Aeon RT Closed on my A30 Pro, the other amps I had could power them decently, but there was a noticeable improvement in their performance with the higher volume levels allowed by the Topping.
OP
goldsoundz
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thank you friend I dont wanna go super cheap.. I dont know I mean I had a bellari amp and akgs seemed like an alright set up but this is info im going for like suggestions to purchase thanks
staticV3
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Based on measurements by Amir, WolfX-700, and Topping we can estimate that the A30Pro will output about 8.3V into 13Ω before clipping. That's about 5.3W, which should drive the Noire to ear-shattering levels.
Are you sure there's nothing wrong with your setup? Did you check the output voltage of your DAC. It's possible there's a volume limiter in place somewhere that prevents you from using the A30Pro to its full potential.
Try Crin's ranking, a mix of objective (he measures all his headphones) and subjective (adds his opinions).
crinacle.com
crinacle's Headphone Ranking List – In-Ear Fidelity
If it's not on the list, it doesn't exist.
crinacle.com
Apologies to the OP if he/she/they're not trolling but, the OP post displays the full HEA mentality. The OP "wanna" spend $3k on each, and could go as high as 8~10K... Seriously posting this in ASR suggests that, perhaps he/she/they haven't read the "vibes" here. We don't go by "Price Class" rather we go by "Objective Performance Levels".
What has become very prominent here, at ASR based on serious reviews is that most headphones sound similar, once equalized to the same curve. There could be differences but not of the "night and day" hyperbole peddled by the audiophile media.
For headphones amplifiers absolute transparency can be acquired for as low as $125.oo with superb power to all but the least sensitive but truly high performance headphones.
We can waver and bobble and ... the reality is that there are also objectives performances metrics for headphones, I could name:
- Smoothness of Frequency Response.
- Low level of Harmonic and Intermodulation distortions
- Lack of resonances
- Adherence to a known and accepted curve. In here we favor the Hatman curve but you can always EQ to taste.
- Good Built.
The list of headphones that meet those criteria is long and cover a range of prices. From around $200.oo to up to around $400.oo the list of headphones excelling at these is long. The sweet spot is between 300 and $700.oo , if you are going to EQ, more dollars doesn't equate, objectively, "more better" ...
IMHO the point of diminishing returns for headphones if Equalized to the same curve is $700.oo past that, not sure what you are getting in term of sound... There is the outlier case of the Sennheiser HD-800S which is said to have unique "spatial qualities". I need to ascertain this.
And if you don't want to EQ, then there are the DCA Stealth and Expanse. I haven't heard these but I am certain that their level of performance is at least approached perhaps suprassed by my HifiMan HE6SE when it is equlized to Harman... which I do and am very satisfied with.. For the record the Stax 007, when EQ to Harman still sound light and is whopped in everything that matters by the HE6SEv2 ... $500.oo vs .. whatever the Stax cost these days...
If the OP in his words "wanna" spend a lot, I would suggest to the OP:
ADI RME DAC amplifier.
DCA Stealth or Expanse.
About 5K for a lot of bliss.
IDK if these are easily available, the OP could wait a while for the DCA.
He/she/they could also buy for fun, while waiting, a Qudelix 5K +TRUTHEAR Crinnacle Zero for about $150.oo, total, and have a taste of the SOTA... Few headphones or IEM can approach those, objectively...
Peace
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I am pleased that Stax has been mentioned by a coupla you guys. Since my two sets of incredibly delicate. Very strange looking, but really quite cheap Jecklin Float Electrostatics, I have considered those, as my music listening pinnacle.Apologies to the OP if he/she/they're not trolling but, the OP post displays the full HEA mentality. The OP "wanna" spend $3k on each, and could go as high as 8~10K... Seriously posting this in ASR suggests that, perhaps he/she/they haven't read the "vibes" here. We don't go by "Price Class" rather we go by "Objective Performance Levels".
What has become very prominent here, at ASR based on serious reviews is that most headphones sound similar, once equalized to the same curve. There could be differences but not of the "night and day" hyperbole peddled by the audiophile media.
For headphones amplifiers absolute transparency can be acquired for as low as $125.oo with superb power to all but the least sensitive but truly high performance headphones.
We can waver and bobble and ... the reality is that there are also objectives performances metrics for headphones, I could name:
There could be others but these parameters, define very much a "good" headphone.
- Smoothness of Frequency Response.
- Low level of Harmonic and Intermodulation distortions
- Lack of resonances
- Adherence to a known and accepted curve. In here we favor the Hatman curve but you can always EQ to taste.
- Good Built.
The list of headphones that meet those criteria is long and cover a range of prices. From around $200.oo to up to around $400.oo the list of headphones excelling at these is long. The sweet spot is between 300 and $700.oo , if you are going to EQ, more dollars doesn't equate, objectively, "more better" ...
IMHO the point of diminishing returns for headphones if Equalized to the same curve is $700.oo past that, not sure what you are getting in term of sound... There is the outlier case of the Sennheiser HD-800S which is said to have unique "spatial qualities". I need to ascertain this.
And if you don't want to EQ, then there are the DCA Stealth and Expanse. I haven't heard these but I am certain that their level of performance is at least approached perhaps suprassed by my HifiMan HE6SE when it is equlized to Harman... which I do and am very satisfied with.. For the record the Stax 007, when EQ to Harman still sound light and is whopped in everything that matters by the HE6SEv2 ... $500.oo vs .. whatever the Stax cost these days...
If the OP in his words "wanna" spend a lot, I would suggest to the OP:
ADI RME DAC amplifier.
DCA Stealth or Expanse.
About 5K for a lot of bliss.
IDK if these are easily available, the OP could wait a while for the DCA.
He/she/they could also buy for fun, while waiting, a Qudelix 5K +TRUTHEAR Crinnacle Zero for about $125.oo, total, and have a taste of the SOTA... Few headphones or IEM can approach those, objectively...
Peace
I didn't that these were real products...I am pleased that Stax has been mentioned by a coupla you guys. Since my two sets of incredibly delicate. Very strange looking, but really quite cheap Jecklin Float Electrostatics, I have considered those, as my music listening pinnacle.
searched eBay and yep! .. there these were!
Around $500.oo.. N
OP
goldsoundz
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maybe I should make this more clear im not ultra rich or anything I do have a good job I dont buy expensive foreign cars or Rolex watches I mean I could but why it would be money I should be saving for retirement im 35 I have a small moderate home since I was 25 I just paid off I have a reasonable amount of money in my savings right now 50k+ I dont drink or use drugs or really spend money on anything fancy besides taking my girl out to Ruth Chris once a month for dinner. I dont plan on having kids I have a technics record player and bookshelf speakers. I want a nice pair of headphones and amp to make them sound good. I dont spend money on much so I figure music being my favorite thing to spend some money on. I dont need to spend 3k on each item I was just wondering what's worth it for the little bit of extra money instead of going to Best Buy and getting some $99 dollar headphones. again I wouldn't want to spend over 3k on each just have funds if more I was looking at 2-4k for both before seeing prices and doing 3k each but it seems like you guys recommend a lot less expensive. sorry I dont know much time for me to live a little buy something nice for myself
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Do you plan on using headphone dac/amp in conjunction with your speakers in the same setup (as a source/preamp)? If so, what model/are they active or passive? Do you need to be able to listen to your turntable via the headphones too, or do you want the headphone setup completely separate? Would you like to integrate digital streaming in your setup as well, or do you play music from any digital other sources than a computer? Answers to all those things would probably matter in a suggestion.
GM3
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Why 3k each? They're not equal... You should spend money where it matters, especially if you're on a budget. IMHO, you'd get better sound by buying the DCAs + 1-2k amp than buying a 3k amp + 2-3k headphones. Not sure if you have a DAC, but you might want one also.
Hell, you might even be better off buying the DCA + a ~500 amp and 100-300$ DAC.
BUT, that's if you really want to blow all that money away. If you just want a great headphone setup, you can do so within $1000, by buying a $500 headphone and amp/dac. If you want better setup or to spend more, you'll get arguably marginal performance benefits, but can get a 1000-2000 bucks headphone.
But spending 3000 on an amp and 3000 on headphone because you have a 6000 budget is just kinda dumb imho
You really don't need 3k amp, headphone amps are cheap!I really don't quite understand why you'd need super beefy amp with the DCAs... The Expanses appear to be around 23-36 ohms so that's not hard to drive?! I have a Schiit Magni (1st; original) and used to own Beyers 990 Premiums which are 600 ohms; so much, much harder to drive, and Magni did ok; not ear bleedingly loud, but enough for normal listening; for someone who doesn't want to damage his ears. "Delivering 1.2W of power into 32 ohms,". The newer Magni is even more powerful:
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 2.8W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2.4W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.6W RMS per channel
But hey, that's a 110 bucks amp, if your budget is 6k; the magius is 200 bucks and has balanced output;
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 6.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 3.2W RMS per channel
or there's the Lyr at 600, a solid state + tube,
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 9.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 6.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 900mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 450mW RMS per channel
Sooo..... Someone need to explain to me how any of these would not be sufficient for the DCA Expanses.!
Not sure if Schiit has fallen out of favour last couple of years, there's other affordable alternatives such as Topping and I don't know what else, they're all very likely all excellent and again, DCA Expanse + any decent amp should make for an absolutely killer system, if you've got the money... That's probably your best bet.
TLDR you definitely don't need to buy 4k headphones to get great sound. Many $100-500 headphones sound great, so do $1000, $1500, $2000, etc. And spending 3k on an headphone amp is just kinda silly!
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There are a lot of other things at play.
Statistically, most people believe $400 is too much money for headphones, so by statistics you get more Hits at under $400.
After that, I accept, the "diminishing returns" sets in.
For example, although I love my Audeze LCD-XC 21 over my Hifiman Edition XS, but in reality the EDXS is much better value than LCD-XC.
So my suggestion to the question is :
Hifiman Edition XS.
juliangst
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I'm sure the Expanse will run fine off something like a Schiit Magni. Most amps can handle 23 Ohms easily.
The issue with my Aeons is that they are only 12 Ohms and most budget amps just fall apart below 16 Ohms.
They just can't provide enough current and you get a lot less power compared to 16 or 32 Ohm loads.
1W just isn't enough for insensitive headphones like the Aeons.
All of that doesn't matter for the Stealth/ Expanse though; even budget amps like the Topping L70 will provide more than 5W at 23 Ohms
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