Best effort room and audio system build

[Descartes]

Can you share the cost of the …

My mistake it was PMI!

 

[Descartes]

Can you share the cost of the design, I spoke

Needless to say I didn’t hire him.

Sorry it was PMI

 

[Adi777]

@Bugal1998 How is your room? Completely finished?

 

[Bugal1998]

@Bugal1998 How is your room? Completely finished?

Hey! Far from completely finished.

About the only thing I've done is try a few different speaker positions and continue to refine the calibration, which has the room sounding incrementally better and better.

That said, I've had some amplifier issues that I'm working through; I've been able to keep everything running except the IB subs with the outages so it's little more than a nuscance.

My microphone doesn't have a low enough noise floor to get meaningful measurements so I need more time to figure that out... but it's tough with a 15 month old. My wife started a new job that has her traveling frequently, so I'm functionally a single dad much of the time.

On the other hand, the A/V rack is supposedly getting delivered on Thursday, and front-row seating may be here as early as next week.

Once I have the seating installed and the amp repaired I plan to recalibrate and try to get usable measurements to post... And I'll share updated photos with other lighting colors per a prior request.

 

[Bugal1998]

Here's a small update with some Omnimic in-room measurements (haven't had time to mess with REW). I've started another thread here to troubleshoot some puzzling phase issues in the right channel that are reducing the sense of envelopment.

Please note that the frequency response curves measured are NOT the curves I use for listening; there is no room correction applied to these sweeps, with subwoofer levels set for flat(ish) bass response.

Frequency Response (both channels in red, left channel blue)- No Room Correction [final subwoofer to mains crossover and time alignment largely fills in the 110hz dip]

Frequency Response (both channels in red, right channel blue)- No Room Correction [final subwoofer to mains crossover and time alignment largely fills in the 110hz dip]

Noise Floor (Laptop in-room)- Limited by microphone noise floor?

Bass Decay (adjusted for response)- No Room Correction

Bass Decay (not adjusted for response)- No Room Correction

ETC Measurement Full bandwidth to 40ms

ETC Measurement Full Bandwidth to 500ms

 

[Bugal1998]

As requested, I tried to get distortion measurements at the listening position, but the sweep kept getting louder but distortion wasn't increasing; I suspect distortion at any sane level at the MLP is below the noise floor of my microphone. Here are some close mic distortion measurements:

Left M2 distortion measured at compression driver centered and flush with mouth of the horn

Right M2 distortion measured at compression driver centered and flush with mouth of the horn

Left M2 distortion measured at woofer centered over the cone and 1cm from grill

Right M2 distortion measured at woofer centered over the cone and 1cm from grill

 

[Bugal1998]

Something mixing silver and champagne would give it a classic look, orange and bronze could also be interesting.

Here's my attempt at the colors you mentioned. It's really inexpensive lighting so color definition isn't great. And the blue looks more white or silver(ish) to the eye. Also includes the new seating (tags and all!).

Still stray wires and measurement mics in the room... Work in-progress.

 

[Adi777]

Wow, this subwoofers are really big

 

[Bugal1998]

This is just fabulous. I’ve also engaged Nyal, though for a less ambitious project and we don’t get started until January. Seeing this really gets me excited about what might be possible though!

@binlove Any update on your project?

 

[Bugal1998]

What is current room noise floor?
What are crossover frequencies?
Also would be interesting to see distortion measurement at LP with intended SPL. With such equipment you'll have some headphones' numbers.

I posted some measurements above, but the noise floor and distortion both seem to be below the mic's self-noise. With room/audio systems powered off, I hear no sound in the room, just the sound of my own ears ringing (have had tinnitus in silence for as long as I can remember).

In the distortion measurements above you can see that distortion is only measurable for the specific driver being tested with a close mic measurement.

Crossovers are:

IB-subs low passed at 20hz to JBL 5628 with high pass at 25hz (the combo gave the smoothest results) and a low pass at 115hz to the JBL M2 with an identical high pass at 115hz (large dip/cancelletion at 105hz required a higher sub to mains crossover).

 

[Sal1950]

Still stray wires and measurement mics in the room... Work in-progress.

Too bad you can't afford something really nice. JK

Any thoughts yet on adding the multich capability?
As a huge surround advocate I can only dream about your room's possibilities
and the wonderful sound you haven't begone to mine yet.

 

[Bugal1998]

Too bad you can't afford something really nice. JK

Any thoughts yet on adding the multich capability?
As a huge surround advocate I can only dream about your room's possibilities
and the wonderful sound you haven't begone to mine yet.

Haha I could make it nicer, but when I have time I'd rather just listen!

Multi-channel is definitely in the plans, but I don't see it being a priority until the child(ren) is/are old enough to enjoy family movies... So I'm guessing a few years out minimum. But who knows!

Stereo is so enveloping (or was before the new seating) that I don't find myself ever really wishing for surround, but you have me curious about what I'm missing!

 

[Igor Kirkwood]

View attachment 295858View attachment 295860

Sorry Bugal, but personally I don't like High Fidelity or Home Cinema listening chairs, when they are too high. It's certainly very good for taking a nap, but then the reflections so close to the ear have a definite negative impact on the perceived sound quality.
In particular, listening in these high armchairs harms the focusing of the musical sources.

 

[Bugal1998]

Sorry Bugal, but personally I don't like High Fidelity or Home Cinema listening chairs, when they are too high. It's certainly very good for taking a nap, but then the reflections so close to the ear have a definite negative impact on the perceived sound quality.
In particular, listening in these high armchairs harms the focusing of the musical sources.

Yup, I had the same concerns. These are the shortest backed chairs of the style that I could find, and fortunately my ears are both well above and away from the headrest when in my listening position.

Nonetheless, I had a scare with my first calibration attempts after bringing them into the room, but I resolved the issues on Wednesday. I now have the best sound in the room since it's commissioning with excellent clarity, envelopment, liveliness, tonality, and focus.

 

[Sal1950]

I now have the best sound in the room since it's commissioning with excellent clarity, envelopment, liveliness, tonality, and focus.

That's really good to hear. You put a ton of money, sweat, and heart into that room build. I can only hope
it's matured into something you really love.
cent' anni,
Sal

 

[Igor Kirkwood]

Your reasoning is good Bugal.
In order to support this one, the photo of a seat is missing... With a head on it.
Congratulations on the overall design of your installation.

Do you have a measurement of the RT 60 (or approaching) of your premises ?

 

[Bugal1998]

Your reasoning is good Bugal.
In order to support this one, the photo of a seat is missing... With a head on it.
Congratulations on the overall design of your installation.

Do you have a measurement of the RT 60 (or approaching) of your premises ?

The support is the perceptual result, which is all that matters; I'm afraid I can't share that beyond words. But I'll see about a picture.

Measurements are shared in post #85 above but limited by the mic noise floor. RT60 according to Trinnov Optimizer is 0.47 secs at last calibration.

Edit: Added link to measurements

 

[Bugal1998]

Your reasoning is good Bugal.
In order to support this one, the photo of a seat is missing... With a head on it.

Here ya go, pic attached. Top of my shoulders are just in line with or just a bit below the top of the chair back. Thought I might need to sit on an extra cushion--which puts the top of my shoulders above the seat back--for critical listening, but it's unnecessary... Maybe if I were a bit shorter.

Congratulations on the overall design of your installation.

Thank you!

 

[Igor Kirkwood]

Thank you for your photo, it's much clearer now.
The position of your ear relative to the seat is correct.
That said, I prefer to have the top of the seat at shoulder level.
Am surprised by your RT 60 of 0.47, indeed the standards recommend an RT 60 of 0.2 for the 5.1.
For stereo, there are no precise rules, but I prefer an RT 60 of 0.2 as well.
Some avant-garde Studios (?) recommend a "dead" room with an RT 60 close to zero.
Having never heard music in such Studios I would have no opinion on this question.

 

[Bugal1998]

That said, I prefer to have the top of the seat at shoulder level.

That's about where it's at, give or take an inch or so. But honestly I don't hear much of difference even when I slouch.

Am surprised by your RT 60 of 0.47, indeed the standards recommend an RT 60 of 0.2 for the 5.1.
For stereo, there are no precise rules, but I prefer an RT 60 of 0.2 as well.
Some avant-garde Studios (?) recommend a "dead" room with an RT 60 close to zero.
Having never heard music in such Studios I would have no opinion on this question.

I deliberately priorized the two channel experience over surround sound. I've experimented with a wide variety of rt60s, and early on thought I preferred a very dead and over-damped room for two-channel (~0.2 sec rt60), but now know I prefer a longer decay. I'm curious if I would enjoy an rt60 of 0.6 or 0.7 seconds even more, but doubt I'll ever test it properly.

I didn't have a good calibration at the time, but the 0.7 second rt60 with no treatments was chaotic sounding though also VERY enveloping. The treatments brought the time down to 0.51 secs with just a lawn chair in the room and the sound became much more controlled though still enveloping. My least favorite (though still outstanding!) experience in this room was with the rt60 at 0.39. The change back up to a 0.47 sec rt60 was immediately noticeable and positive to my ears.

Of course to each their own; everyone should listen to what they enjoy the most (but they should experiment to actually know what they enjoy the most, especially if they think they prefer over-damped).

My experience is that a small minority of tracks are just outstanding in an over-damped space; I mean truly incredible! I was so drawn to that experience it was what I thought I preferred.

However, the current livelier room makes many many more tracks an impressive and most importantly enjoyable experience (going from a 5 in the dead room to an 8 or 9 out of 10). And those tracks that shined in a dead room are still a 9 or 9.5 out of 10. I'd never even consider going back to an over-damped room for recreational listening at this point.