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Best Digital Phono preamp

Is that really the case?
The Waxwing can amplify the 310MC better with its higher analog gain. I don't see the 200 ohms as a problem either, as the fine adjustment can be done by AIR.
Why do you think the waxwing has a better analog gain compared to the Adept ?
 
I don't fully understand how ADC works on the waxwing but based on the measurements It seems that it has the following signal processing : analog input > full ADC with 12db analog headroom/gain here > variable digital gain up to 72db to accommodate for device...

If you have a look at this and this and this as well for the minidsp adept it seems that the 0.6mv is only wrt the 26db analog gain (where waxwing has only 12db). Assuming they have similar adc chip (the adept uses ESS ES9842 Pro with 117db SNR @0dbfs) I don't see how the adept will fail to provide the volume you need.

My understanding of those ADC based phono is that the analog gain is only for input headroom/dynamic range. For context, last time I tested my minidsp flex balanced analog input was able bring my vm540ml to line level... the only think they're doing here is adding 24db/26db to increase dynamic range and adapt for capacitance & impedance of the phono input.
 
Load on SUTs can matter, but you need a low impedance source and scope to figure out what that will be, or someone who already has for the SUT and cartridge you’re using.
Speaking of SUT using both (1) this, (2) this, (3) this and having the necessary inputs data, one should be able "match" SUT & cartdrige fairly easily and beforhand.

I decided (and bought on ebay) to replace my AT630 the sony HA-T10. This has two purpose :-
- Form factor: these don't need any place and are sleek as possible. I would have prefered the HA-T30 or HA-T50 as they're black (and supposedly measure better) but their cost is currently prohibitive.
- increased cartdridge output & SNR. Given a 30 Ohm internal impedance for the 310MC, 1:20 nominal turn ratio and a 100kOhm phono impedance I can reach a 18x voltage increase (vs 12x for the AT630) meaning my 310MC @3.6mV would be quite fine with the Minidsp adept at MM Medium/High Gain
 
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I don't fully understand how ADC works on the waxwing but based on the measurements It seems that it has the following signal processing : analog input > full ADC with 12db analog headroom/gain here > variable digital gain up to 72db to accommodate for device...
No

Analog input -> variable analog gain stage -> ADC

Analog gain is regulated via "Gain" setting
Digital gain is regulated via "Volume" setting - only negative values available, sometimes useful when RIAA eq introduces clipping
 
the adept uses ESS ES9842 Pro with 117db SNR @0dbfs
The Waxwing shows the following noise behavior with activated phono EQ and 72dB analog gain @96kHz:

Waxwing with open analog inputs Phono_Gain72dB.png


This is very good for phono and I doubt that the implementation in the miniDSP performs as well with an input gain of 72dB. The miniDSP has to add digital gain for this (LOMC)!
 
No

Analog input -> variable analog gain stage -> ADC

Analog gain is regulated via "Gain" setting
Digital gain is regulated via "Volume" setting - only negative values available, sometimes useful when RIAA eq introduces clipping
Ok then they've taken different approach. Minidsp Adept has less analog gain but more headroom (and probably better SINAD as per specs) where Waxing has more analog gain.
 
Ok then they've taken different approach. Minidsp Adept has less analog gain but more headroom (and probably better SINAD as per specs) where Waxing has more analog gain.
'More headroom' of course depends on the gain. The Waxwing app will indicate clipping so you can set the gain as necessary to avoid it while maximising signal. Most will probably set once for their hottest recording, but I'm sure some will have different settings for different records.
 
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As pointed out by Amir with the Puffin & @dougi with the Waxwing, analog headroom seems fixed (12db) and will not increase by decreasing gain. 40db & 60db gain will show exactly the same headroom of 12db meaning, it will clip with hot records, but then the pop & clips can be removed with the waxwing feature. With a fixed 26db/24db headroom, the Minidsp will likely never clip from its analogue stage unless used with very hot cartdridge (>13mV).
 
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This is very good for phono and I doubt that the implementation in the miniDSP performs as well with an input gain of 72dB. The miniDSP has to add digital gain for this (LOMC)!
You're right for very LOMC (without SUT) the waxwing is probably the best phono preamp. I see this as a tradeoff between two powerful devices with pro & cons as for anything above 0.5mV, the MiniDSP will provide better SINAD (and headroom) if the specs are to be believed (and MiniDSP usually delivers on this).

I hope they'll send a unit to Amir for testing... and that they'll keep adding more DSP features to the Adept.
 
People like me, that have a SUT for MC cartridges and don't care about high gain (> 40 dB) ... maybe the Adept is the one.
Very interesting, I'll follow this thread :)
 
that preamp cost half than waxwing ... it will be very good a review here.
It is not an apple to apple comparison. Different products for sure. The Waxwing offers more flexibility - both in capabilities and control via the phone app. Things like azimuth, real time ADC inputs levels, turntable speed measurement, fine tuning of balance and response, 24 memories, log time on each memory - the list goes on....
USA built versus China - if that is important to you. Unparalleled support - can you notify the folks at minidsp of a bug and get a fix a week or two later that downloads via the phone app to the product? That happens with the Waxwing. Not the same at all. Looking at the Adept - it has some nice points, but it appears to be something designed to check the measurement boxes - if the specs are to be believed. The Waxwing covers the functionality and practical needs of the medium.
 
I agree that it's not an apple to apple comparison and that's great. They've taken different approaches, giving customers the choice depending of their needs.
In my case both would've work therefore price was the determining factor here. I won't deny that I like the load/capacitance for flexibility as well because some of my MM cartridges are more picky (even If these days I almost exclusively listen to the 310MC).

USA vs HongKong/China built, as I live in Europe it won't really matter, but sure the Waxwing has a long list of very nice features that makes for an incredible product. I also like MiniDSP as a company and already own a MiniDSP Flex Balanced. They brought to the HiFi community very useful devices with normal price. I hope that they would add a couple of new features that are "easy" to implement to the Adept (fine tuning of balance, additional PEQ...)
Either way, choose whatever works for you. We live in a spoiled era for HiFi.
 
I won't deny that I like the load/capacitance for flexibility as well because some of my MM cartridges are more picky
Then you would be well positioned with the Waxwing, as it corrects this in the digital domain and makes it quickly customizable. There is also the advantage of the many memory slots.
 
For anyone looking for measurement of ortofon T-5/ Sony HA-T10 SUT That page is godsent. This basically confirms that even with this SUT load has no audible impact on Frequency Response, but works well to "control" output from the cartdridge.
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One thing that annoyed me with the AT630 was lack of information and conflicting data on the SUT. Happy to see that data & measurements for ortofon T-5/ Sony HA-T10 is more readily available.
 
It is not an apple to apple comparison. Different products for sure. The Waxwing offers more flexibility - both in capabilities and control via the phone app. Things like azimuth, real time ADC inputs levels, turntable speed measurement, fine tuning of balance and response, 24 memories, log time on each memory - the list goes on....
USA built versus China - if that is important to you. Unparalleled support - can you notify the folks at minidsp of a bug and get a fix a week or two later that downloads via the phone app to the product? That happens with the Waxwing. Not the same at all. Looking at the Adept - it has some nice points, but it appears to be something designed to check the measurement boxes - if the specs are to be believed. The Waxwing covers the functionality and practical needs of the medium.

You're forgetting 500 USD vs 300 USD .. If the Adept covers what you need, why to pay 60% more?
 
Then you would be well positioned with the Waxwing, as it corrects this in the digital domain and makes it quickly customizable. There is also the advantage of the many memory slots.
If I didn't have Dirac/PEQ downstream the waxwing would have been a no-brainer. But in my current configuration, once I get into digital domain I can pretty much do anything. I just need the ADC to not clip (hence preference for more headroom).

One question for you though. I currently have an SL QL1 as a turntable. It's a solid linear tracker (probably the best from technics aside SL-M series). Do you think I'll get tangible return swapping it with a SL-1600MK2 (or similar) with technics T4P to 1/2" headshell to reuse my 310MC ?
 
You're forgetting 500 USD vs 300 USD .. If the Adept covers what you need, why to pay 60% more?
That's a consideration which is obvious and not addressed in my reply. They don't have equal capabilities, so why should the price be equal? Please note that I am not suggesting buying one over the other - that is a personal decision for each individual. For me, the support and made in the USA influenced my choice. Had the Adept been available a year ago, I would have considered it but likely still have gone with the Waxwing. It is virtually impossible not to purchase something made in China. Support is a valid concern for any product made anywhere.
 
That's a consideration which is obvious and not addressed in my reply. They don't have equal capabilities, so why should the price be equal? Please note that I am not suggesting buying one over the other - that is a personal decision for each individual. For me, the support and made in the USA influenced my choice. Had the Adept been available a year ago, I would have considered it but likely still have gone with the Waxwing. It is virtually impossible not to purchase something made in China. Support is a valid concern for any product made anywhere.

Well, then you answer me ... support is the answer.

I don't live in USA, so I don't have any support with both products ... I can choose only based on features.
Maybe that's why "made in China" from decent companies is not something "bad" for us (non US residents) ... even many americans use a made in China Iphone without any complain.
 
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