Best device for using powered monitors through PC and Hifi Equipment

[topre]

Hi Guys,

I am hoping to use powered monitors (Genelec 8030) for my PC audio as well as turntables and if possible also my cassette player and some analog synthesizers. What is the best way to achieve this? It seems every way I can think of has one side, analog or digital, that always has a downside in my methods.

A DAC such as a Cambridge DACMagic Plus seems perfect for the digital side as I have no soundcard in my PC so I need a DAC/soundcard and the ability to bluetooth audio to my speakers would be amazing. Also XLR-XLR inputs for the speakers. But no way to get analog stuff into them.

Audio Interface - Focusrite 18i8. People have mentioned that there may be a degradation in sound quality on the analog side doing things this way. Also sound quality probably not up to par with a DAC such as the above. Can you get balanced XLR - 1/2" cables? Also I don't want to have to buy Ableton to properly manage my setup (saw a video on youtube of someone using it to properly setup a turntable for playback). Other than that it seems ideal for me to be able to play anything analog or digital through the same speakers with ease.

Stereo pre-amp of some kind...the Schiit Sys is the closest thing I have found, but only 2 inputs which is not perfect for me. Or just put the speakers right into my DJ mixer and have my PC as the other input. Is using RCA cables limiting in comparison to XLR - 1/2"/XLR?

TL;DR What's the best method to use powered monitors with both my PC and turntables?

Thank you!

 

[dortreo]

The Benchmark DAC3 models with home theater bypass would work well. (DAC3 L or HGC) They offer USB input for the PC and unbalanced inputs for analog sources. XLR outputs can connect directly with your Genelecs. I’m sure there are cheaper alternatives, but Benchmark makes a mean piece of kit.

 

[topre]

The Benchmark DAC3 models with home theater bypass would work well. (DAC3 L or HGC) They offer USB input for the PC and unbalanced inputs for analog sources. XLR outputs can connect directly with your Genelecs. I’m sure there are cheaper alternatives, but Benchmark makes a mean piece of kit.

Thank you, this looks very promising but quite a lot more than I was hoping to spend. What does home theater bypass mean? Just that it's bypassing the AD-DA of an interface without this feature? I was looking at the Motu M4 which I believe you are able to do this with? Not sure for my purposes what benefit the Benchmark would provide? Aside from assumed better audio quality.

 

[dortreo]

The Benchmark is a brilliant piece but pricey. It’s a quality piece of engineering. Home Theater Bypass sends its outputs at a fixed volume level. I am not sure but don’t believe AD/DA conversion is occurring. The DAC2 could answer your needs as well and often comes up on the secondary market.

Less pricey alternatives include the Schiit Jotunheim with AK 4490 DAC. I’m not familiar with Schiit, but it seems you could do better or worse and the price is reasonable.

I’m not familiar with the Motu M4 but a look at the unit on B&H isn’t showing XLR outputs.

One other alternative is to get an external A/D conversion box like the Kanex Pro or Gefen. I can’t attest to their quality or reliability though.

 

[topre]

The Benchmark is a brilliant piece but pricey. It’s a quality piece of engineering. Home Theater Bypass sends its outputs at a fixed volume level. I am not sure but don’t believe AD/DA conversion is occurring. The DAC2 could answer your needs as well and often comes up on the secondary market.

Less pricey alternatives include the Schiit Jotunheim with AK 4490 DAC. I’m not familiar with Schiit, but it seems you could do better or worse and the price is reasonable.

I’m not familiar with the Motu M4 but a look at the unit on B&H isn’t showing XLR outputs.

One other alternative is to get an external A/D conversion box like the Kanex Pro or Gefen. I can’t attest to their quality or reliability though.

Thank you very much, I will look into these options!

So essentially I could input my dj mixer into the Benchmark and the bypass would allow me to just control the volume on the mixer without it interfering with volume levels which may end up being quite low otherwise, aside from the audio quality benefit? I believe Benchmark only has capacity for my TT's to be using the Home Theater Bypass, is this not something a cassette deck would benefit from anyway?

The Motu M4 does not have XLR outputs, but I believe XLR-1/4" jacks like this can still provide balanced audio? If this is the case, is there any other benefit to XLR-XLR? Just trying to understand the benefit in the cost difference in my case.

 

[dortreo]

Here’s what the Benchmark manual has to say about HT mode:

The HT mode sets the volume control to a calibrated level that is near its maximum setting. The HT mode has three distinct applications: Volume Control Bypass - useful when the system has an upstream digital volume control or a downstream analog volume control; Home Theater Bypass - allows high- quality stereo playback on a system that is also used for surround applications; Calibrated Output - useful in studio applications where calibrated levels are needed

The Benchmark also lets you change its output voltage to feed either consumer or pro grade audio equipment.

I didn’t realize that 1/4” TRS is the same as balanced. You learn something new every day! There is a review on this site of the Motu 624. Also looks like a quality piece of equipment.

It’s funny but when you mentioned turntables, I hadn’t thought of DJ’ing. That’s awesome!

 

[Kouioui]

Motu M2/M4 both have balanced outputs but use 1/4" TRS jacks instead of XLR. You're still gaining the benefit (no ground loops/longer cables) and depending on your powered monitors, you'd either use TRS->XLR or TRS->TRS cables, no difference really. The Motu's test better than most interfaces and are affordably priced.

 

[topre]

Motu M2/M4 both have balanced outputs but use 1/4" TRS jacks instead of XLR. You're still gaining the benefit (no ground loops/longer cables) and depending on your powered monitors, you'd either use TRS->XLR or TRS->TRS cables, no difference really. The Motu's test better than most interfaces and are affordably priced.

I have a mixer (Vestax PMC-06 Pro) I will use as a phono stage so should be good? Thank you for confirming on XLR vs TRS. Do you know if the Motu M2/4 has something similar to Home Theater Bypass that eliminates the AD-DA step? Not sure how much of a difference this will make in reality.. Thanks!

 

[topre]

Here’s what the Benchmark manual has to say about HT mode:

The HT mode sets the volume control to a calibrated level that is near its maximum setting. The HT mode has three distinct applications: Volume Control Bypass - useful when the system has an upstream digital volume control or a downstream analog volume control; Home Theater Bypass - allows high- quality stereo playback on a system that is also used for surround applications; Calibrated Output - useful in studio applications where calibrated levels are needed

The Benchmark also lets you change its output voltage to feed either consumer or pro grade audio equipment.

I didn’t realize that 1/4” TRS is the same as balanced. You learn something new every day! There is a review on this site of the Motu 624. Also looks like a quality piece of equipment.

It’s funny but when you mentioned turntables, I hadn’t thought of DJ’ing. That’s awesome!

Thank you for that, very helpful. So if I went for an interface that's cheaper that doesn't have the HT mode as this seems to be the only feature I would be paying extra for in my case, would it just be a case that everything may be too quiet coming from my turntables?

 

[Kouioui]

Do you know if the Motu M2/4 has something similar to Home Theater Bypass that eliminates the AD-DA step? Not sure how much of a difference this will make in reality.. Thanks!

If you need an interface with digital inputs that would bypass the A/D, most of them use AES/EBU and are in a much higher price range. Your Vestax should be fine for phono. From what I can gather from your setup, the M4 should be about perfect except for Bluetooth, which you can add a receiver for quite cheap (check Amazon). What you'd gain from any analog bypass would be little IMO.

 

[TimW]

Since you want to use turntable(s), a cassette deck, and analog synthesizer(s) it sounds like you need multiple analog inputs. I've never tried a setup like this, but I have a Focusrite 18i20 and I can route any input to my main outputs just using the included Focusrite control software. No DAW required.

However if I were you I might go with an analog solution just for the simplicity. I have an older Tascam mixer with a usb input, a phono input, and a few stereo inputs that would do the trick. If you already have a mixer similar to mine it should have balanced outputs for your Genelecs.

On the other hand, a nice stereo analog preamp would be nicer to look at. Take a look at the Schiit Freya S. It has the inputs and outputs you need, other than phono, in an attractive package with remote control. But then again it costs even more than a decent interface or mixer. You may be able to find something similar on the used market though. Then you just need a USB DAC for your computer and something as cheap as an apple USB-C dongle would work for that.

 

[topre]

If you need an interface with digital inputs that would bypass the A/D, most of them use AES/EBU and are in a much higher price range. Your Vestax should be fine for phono. From what I can gather from your setup, the M4 should be about perfect except for Bluetooth, which you can add a receiver for quite cheap (check Amazon). What you'd gain from any analog bypass would be little IMO.

Thanks a lot! I mean, the price difference is in the thousands, so it would have to be a considerable advantage, or un-usable without it to warrant spending the extra money to be realistic, especially since the reviews sound quality wise of the M4 seem great. Also I think I could use one of the channels on my mixer for the cassette deck, freeing up 2 inputs on the M4 which would be used for my synth.

 

[topre]

Since you want to use turntable(s), a cassette deck, and analog synthesizer(s) it sounds like you need multiple analog inputs. I've never tried a setup like this, but I have a Focusrite 18i20 and I can route any input to my main outputs just using the included Focusrite control software. No DAW required.

However if I were you I might go with an analog solution just for the simplicity. I have an older Tascam mixer with a usb input, a phono input, and a few stereo inputs that would do the trick. If you already have a mixer similar to mine it should have balanced outputs for your Genelecs.

On the other hand, a nice stereo analog preamp would be nicer to look at. Take a look at the Schiit Freya S. It has the inputs and outputs you need, other than phono, in an attractive package with remote control. But then again it costs even more than a decent interface or mixer. You may be able to find something similar on the used market though. Then you just need a USB DAC for your computer and something as cheap as an apple USB-C dongle would work for that.

Yes that's essentially what I want! Whilst I assume in reality the digital step going into the interface wont cause any noticeable issues with sound?, definitely have been thinking about going the analog route, but then I lose the benefit of being able to use the same unit for a DAC on my PC which is a nice and compact solution. I have a DJ mixer, (vestax pmc-06 pro) which has 2 inputs (not enough for me on its own) and the output i'm pretty sure isn't balanced.

With a stereo analog preamp like that Freya S which looks very nice, I would run all my analog gear into it, and my speakers out of it, and then connect that to a DAC right? The main advantage to this method would be just having all of my analog gear not running through the DAC I assume?

 

[TimW]

Yes that's essentially what I want! Whilst I assume in reality the digital step going into the interface wont cause any noticeable issues with sound?, definitely have been thinking about going the analog route, but then I lose the benefit of being able to use the same unit for a DAC on my PC which is a nice and compact solution. I have a DJ mixer, (vestax pmc-06 pro) which has 2 inputs (not enough for me on its own) and the output i'm pretty sure isn't balanced.

With a stereo analog preamp like that Freya S which looks very nice, I would run all my analog gear into it, and my speakers out of it, and then connect that to a DAC right? The main advantage to this method would be just having all of my analog gear not running through the DAC I assume?

There is unlikely to be any audible degradation of the sound from your analog sources going through the ADC in an interface. However there is also no point to the extra AD/DA stage since volume control and input switching can be performed adequately in the analog domain. If you want to get an interface for reasons other than just use as a preamp, like digitizing your analog sources or recording, then that would be the way to go. However if you just need a preamp for a pair of speakers in a listening setup and you want something that looks nice then an analog preamp may be the most convenient tool for the job. Although you would still need an outboard USB DAC.

I assume you will use your Vestax PMC-06 pro as your phono stage and connect its output to one of the inputs on whatever device you get. The Tascam mixer I was referring to is a 10 channel live sound analog mixer which comes with a lot of features you don't need. Something like that may work for you but it's probably not a great solution.

Is this just going to be a desktop listening setup or are you going to be on the other side of the room where you may want a remote for volume control?

 

[topre]

There is unlikely to be any audible degradation of the sound from your analog sources going through the ADC in an interface. However there is also no point to the extra AD/DA stage since volume control and input switching can be performed adequately in the analog domain. If you want to get an interface for reasons other than just use as a preamp, like digitizing your analog sources or recording, then that would be the way to go. However if you just need a preamp for a pair of speakers in a listening setup and you want something that looks nice then an analog preamp may be the most convenient tool for the job. Although you would still need an outboard USB DAC.

I assume you will use your Vestax PMC-06 pro as your phono stage and connect its output to one of the inputs on whatever device you get. The Tascam mixer I was referring to is a 10 channel live sound analog mixer which comes with a lot of features you don't need. Something like that may work for you but it's probably not a great solution.

Is this just going to be a desktop listening setup or are you going to be on the other side of the room where you may want a remote for volume control?

Yes I will use the Vestax as the phono stage and probably run my cassette deck on the other channel if I go the Interface route (then I will have 2 spare inputs for my synths ready to go). Mainly a desktop listening setup. I'm not all that worried about a remote volume control. I'm not a producer or even a musician, but I have a few analog synths I like to play with and wouldn't mind the option to be able to mess about and record things here and there if there wasn't a huge downside to doing so. I understand it's an extra stage, but for the price of that M4, in one tiny unit it would sort everything out for me. Also for maybe half the price than going the analog preamp route it seems (although this would provide lots more analog inputs potentially), especially since I also need a DAC of some kind for my PC...

 

[TimW]

You should definitely go with an interface like the M4 then. Don't worry about the extra AD/DA stage. Just make sure you set input gain properly to avoid clipping and channel imbalance. Also keep in mind that the 4 inputs of the M4 will only allow you to connect 2 stereo sources. If you want more inputs then get an interface with more inputs.

 

[topre]

You should definitely go with an interface like the M4 then. Don't worry about the extra AD/DA stage. Just make sure you set input gain properly to avoid clipping and channel imbalance. Also keep in mind that the 4 inputs of the M4 will only allow you to connect 2 stereo sources. If you want more inputs then get an interface with more inputs.

Thank you so much. I read something about -10db for consumer equipment so may need to change this as it's usually set at like +4db for pro equipment by default or something, assume that's related to input gain? I'm hoping the 4 inputs will be enough - 2 for my mixer which will have my turntables and cassette deck going into, and the remaining 2 to hot swap my synths.

 

[TimW]

Thank you so much. I read something about -10db for consumer equipment so may need to change this as it's usually set at like +4db for pro equipment by default or something, assume that's related to input gain? I'm hoping the 4 inputs will be enough - 2 for my mixer which will have my turntables and cassette deck going into, and the remaining 2 to hot swap my synths.

Sounds like you know what you're doing as far as connections goes. And yes the -10db consumer +4db pro thing is standard. I've never used my interfaces with single ended line level sources but mine have input gain knobs for each channel and I'm sure I could adjust that knob to get the levels correct. The M4 doesn't have dedicated input gain knobs for channels 3 and 4 so I'm not sure how the level is set there.

 

[Kouioui]

@topre Doesn't your PC have Bluetooth built-in to the motherboard? Then you wouldn't need the Bluetooth to USB adaptor, which fees-up any analog input needed for that application. If you're going to use all those analog sources, a standard mixer with USB I/O could handle as many as you wish and still give you PC I/O for recording. Doubtful you'd get the outstanding audio performance for what you'd pay for a M4 but you do gain flexibility. I prefer keeping as much PC-based as possible due to the advantages of software plug-ins but everyone's priorities are personal.

 

[topre]

Sounds like you know what you're doing as far as connections goes. And yes the -10db consumer +4db pro thing is standard. I've never used my interfaces with single ended line level sources but mine have input gain knobs for each channel and I'm sure I could adjust that knob to get the levels correct. The M4 doesn't have dedicated input gain knobs for channels 3 and 4 so I'm not sure how the level is set there.

Will be optimal to connect my mixer into the front ones for the knobs in that case and I assume there must be some way of adjusting levels for 3+4 on the PC side.