Best Class D or cool-running amplifier to try?

[ahofer]

Victoria, in addition to the March Audio units, the Elac/Audio alchemy unit I posted at the beginning seems like it might be a good fit. You can try one for 30 days from Audio Advisor.

I'm torn between trying that or an amp based on one of the more current hypex/puriti modules. But it seems to me that Elac is positioning itself like the Adcom of old - a value brand.

 

[Victoria]

Victoria, in addition to the March Audio units, the Elac/Audio alchemy unit I posted at the beginning seems like it might be a good fit. You can try one for 30 days from Audio Advisor.

I'm torn between trying that or an amp based on one of the more current hypex/puriti modules. But it seems to me that Elac is positioning itself like the Adcom of old - a value brand.

Yep, I've side-eyeing the ELAC Alchemy products for some time now! Especially given my long history with using ELAC speakers, I naturally have a little bit of a bias towards favoring ELAC products. Unfortunately for me however they are a little bit on the large side (in terms of width) for the setup I'm planning, so I've reluctantly given them a pass.

March Audio definitely looks super interesting, but one of my prerequisites is that the DAC *must* have a volume control.

Due to past experiences this is something I'm not willing to overlook. While I don't inherently have a problem with software volume control, there are far too many software products that default to an extremely high gain. Couple that with the fact that I've got quite the fixation for ridiculously powerful amplifiers (my previous one was 500W into my 4Ω speakers) I consider this a critical safety feature.

I like high powered amplifiers so that I have plenty of headroom to stay away from even the slightest bit of distortion, but that also means that I do have to take some precautions and having just a single volume control in software doesn't cut it for me.

 

[DonH56]

There are many after-market volume controls or you can roll your own.

@March Audio -- A nicely-matched and tracking stereo attenuator might be a nice little side item in the line, or a version of the DAC with a volume control...

 

[March Audio]

There are many after-market volume controls or you can roll your own.

@March Audio -- A nicely-matched and tracking stereo attenuator might be a nice little side item in the line, or a version of the DAC with a volume control...

There are plans for a simple pre, but as always time is issue. A few other priorities first, the headphone amp is just about to go in the shop, then Purify based amp then the speakers..............

 

[ahofer]

I've ordered a March p252, and will follow up when I get it. This should be interesting.

 

[typericey]

Looking forward to your report @ahofer.

 

[Victoria]

Update (just to throw in something extra to consider for anyone else interested in Class-D amplification): I'm mostly settled on the Matrix Audio Element P. Yes, it's wider than my original requirements, but because it's both a DAC and amplifier in one box I can likely work around the extra width.

Amplification in the Element P comes from a single ICEpower 250ASX2 module, and given its decent datasheet specifications along with my history of using amplifiers with ICEpower modules I have no reason to doubt the product. Not to mention the recent excellent review and measurements of its sibling product, the Element X. Wish me luck! I definitely look forward to embarking on this little adventure.

This will be the first time I'm committing to an all-in-one solution, but I definitely look forward to it.

Just having a single power cable for the entire system and not having to bother with interconnects is going to be such a welcome change for me!

Four cables total (one for power, one for USB, and two for my speakers), woohoo!

 

[BillG]

I'm mostly settled on the Matrix Audio Element P. Yes, it's wider than my original requirements, but because it's both a DAC and amplifier in one box I can likely work around the extra width.

But it's got all the streaming "fluff and bluff" you dismissively railed against when I suggested a similar solution to you in the form of the NAD M10 and Yamaha WXA-50...

By the way, welcome to the world of streaming, integrated amplifiers. I'm sure you'll enjoy it...

 

[Victoria]

But it's got all the streaming "fluff and bluff" you dismissively railed against when I suggested a similar solution to you in the form of the NAD M10 and Yamaha WXA-50...

By the way, welcome to the world of streaming, integrated amplifiers. I'm sure you'll enjoy it...

Indeed it does, but with my space constraints I'm left in a rather unfortunate position where I need to choose which enemy I'm willing to embrace.

With the Element P all the streaming nonsense is extremely easy to ignore (well, at least if the Element X is any indication, which I've already had the opportunity to fiddle around with). If all the features I do not need are sufficiently secluded -- and can be disabled or otherwise hidden -- such that it doesn't get in my way then I guess I don't mind. Well, I do still mind, but I will mind a lot less, haha.

Due to travels I've given myself a month to mull over this, so there is still plenty of time for me to just say "eff it" and stick to my Yamaha NX-N500 speakers; which incidentally do support MusicCast, but at least Yamaha had the foresight to add a big physical "WIRELESS: OFF" switch behind.

And yes, I'll continue to call it "streaming nonsense" because as mentioned in my original post, I like owning and playing my music offline. It just works. And frankly the last thing I need is yet another networked appliance attached to my network to introduce yet another point of potential trouble, and once you've been in my shoes and witnessed firsthand how much the vast majority of companies invest in the security (and general reliability and upkeep) of their networked products (read: zero), you'll understand. IT is what I deal with day to day, so the last thing I want is more IT-related headaches at home; and hence why I've always been adamant in the simplicity of the products I personally own.

I've dealt with enough IT-related affairs at work, and don't need any more of that at home.

 

[BillG]

I've dealt with enough IT-related affairs at work, and don't need any more of that at home.

I'm a software engineer, have been one for over three decades now. Utilizing these technologies at home is nowhere near as bothersome as dealing with a corporate IT environment.

I like owning and playing my music offline

I do as well, which is why I maintain it on a server which I stream from here at home approximately 75% of the time. And if I'm not streaming that content into a streaming integrated amplifier, I'm remote controlling the media player on my desktop, which is connected to the amp via USB, via a WiFi data stream from my smartphone. Streams-streams-streams all over the place...

 

[georgeT]

I've ordered a March p252, and will follow up when I get it. This should be interesting.

I hope it measures better than the FA252 plate amplifier.

It's ridiculous how lousy modern amplifiers are after some 50 years of technological progress. As measurements have shown on this site, you need a 1500$ amp like a Purifi 1ET400A to get a THD +N of -104db. That's barely over CD dynamic range.
I was considering getting the FA252 but the price performance just isn't there. Now I'm looking to buy a used Arcam A29 class G amplifier, that is if I can find it for a reasonable price.

 

[March Audio]

I hope it measures better than the FA252 plate amplifier.

It's ridiculous how lousy modern amplifiers are after some 50 years of technological progress. As measurements have shown on this site, you need a 1500$ amp like a Purifi 1ET400A to get a THD +N of -104db. That's barely over CD dynamic range.
I was considering getting the FA252 but the price performance just isn't there. Now I'm looking to buy a used Arcam A29 class G amplifier, that is if I can find it for a reasonable price.

I havent used the FA252 but it does use the same amplifier module. I find it unlikely that the AD/DA/DSP in the F252 will introduce significant additional distortion.

As such you need to check your measurements, they do not appear correct, not even close - an order of magnitude too high.

Your measurement above shows 0.027% thd + n @ 150watts into 8 ohms.
The correct figure is 0.0008% for the power amp module.

NC252MP

 

[FrantzM]

There are plans for a simple pre, but as always time is issue. A few other priorities first, the headphone amp is just about to go in the shop, then Purify based amp then the speakers..............

Interesting ... Speakers?!??!?

 

[March Audio]

Interesting ... Speakers?!??!?

indeed

 

[georgeT]

I havent used the FA252 but it does use the same amplifier module. I find it unlikely that the AD/DA/DSP will introduce significant additional distortion.

As such you need to check your measurements, they do not appear correct, not even close - an order of magnitude too high.

NC252MP
View attachment 30530

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The measurement I posted was from an avsforum thread so don't know much about the testing methods used.

I compared the data sheet for the nc252 and the nc400... and the nc252 measures better according to hypex's own data sheet (IMD spectrum at -100 for nc400, -110 for nc252mp).
Something is fishy, it could be from the AD to DA conversion as you said. But measurements notwithstanding, the prices on these ncore modules are pretty steep.
Sure, Icepower is a bit more affordable but the 6Khz THD is pretty bad. Then you got class A/B amps that barely go under -90db (even though it's been around for 50 years).
The picture this paints is bleak... I bought a 90 euro Topping D10 with crazy low THD for the price (-107db I think), only to be stuck listening to it through a 300 euro amp that has -87 db THD.

Sorry for the rant, I do hope your amps measure the same as the data sheet, and that those who afford them, get to enjoy them.

 

[March Audio]

The measurement I posted was from an avsforum thread so don't know much about the testing methods used.

I compared the data sheet for the nc252 and the nc400... and the nc252 measures better according to hypex's own data sheet (IMD spectrum at -100 for nc400, -110 for nc252mp).
Something is fishy, it could be from the AD to DA conversion as you said. But measurements notwithstanding, the prices on these ncore modules are pretty steep.
Sure, Icepower is a bit more affordable but the 6Khz THD is pretty bad. Then you got class A/B amps that barely go under -90db (even though it's been around for 50 years).
The picture this paints is bleak... I bought a 90 euro Topping D10 with crazy low THD for the price (-107db I think), only to be stuck listening to it through a 300 euro amp that has -87 db THD.

Sorry for the rant, I do hope your amps measure the same as the data sheet, and that those who afford them, get to enjoy them.

?

You have misread. The Nc400 measures better than the 252.

I said it was unlikely the ad/da created those poor measurements. The datasheets says the ad/da (in-out round trip) is 100dB thd + n. There is definitely something wrong with those measurements.

Not sure I view the Hypex DIY stuff as expensive. The Nc252mp isn't available to the public for DIY.

I'm not sure where you are going with this, but can you show the performance of some cheap A/B amps? Let's say 90euro price.

Power amps are not dacs. You have to add around 26dB of gain to the signal and get them to output high levels of current into non benign loads. It's not bleak, it's physics. Thats the reason why only the best (and expensive) power amps will approach DAC performance levels.

 

[maxxevv]

I hope it measures better than the FA252 plate amplifier.

It's ridiculous how lousy modern amplifiers are after some 50 years of technological progress. As measurements have shown on this site, you need a 1500$ amp like a Purifi 1ET400A to get a THD +N of -104db. That's barely over CD dynamic range.
I was considering getting the FA252 but the price performance just isn't there. Now I'm looking to buy a used Arcam A29 class G amplifier, that is if I can find it for a reasonable price.

Speakers have been around just as long and perhaps longer as opposed to solid state amps .... The very best ones don't even get anywhere near -95 dB as far as I've seen. ( If there are obscure ones that do, I certainly would like to know about them. )

 

[Victoria]

I'm a software engineer, have been one for over three decades now. Utilizing these technologies at home is nowhere near as bothersome as dealing with a corporate IT environment.



I do as well, which is why I maintain it on a server which I stream from here at home approximately 75% of the time. And if I'm not streaming that content into a streaming integrated amplifier, I'm remote controlling the media player on my desktop, which is connected to the amp via USB, via a WiFi data stream from my smartphone. Streams-streams-streams all over the place...

Hey, if it works for you, I won't judge

I on the other hand really just can't be bothered with anything more than an IR remote, hah.

 

[ahofer]

I love using Qobuz and Tidal. When I was a kid I used to go to the Lincoln Center Music Library and listen to records. It reminds of that, with my own system and no crosstown bus trip. A whole 'nother way to enjoy my audio investment.

 

[Willem]

Indeed these streaming services are like having access to a large public/university library rather than you own book shelves. I have found it a culturally very rich experience. My only gripe concerns the user interfaces of these services.