Best 'Bang for your buck' IEM - Poll

[Chyżwar]

Making people believe that the cable is making a difference is slimy and only creates FUD and confusion.

You're wrong. It's possible that these cables affect the sound in the way we see in the graph if they have different impedance.

 

[markanini]

You're wrong. It's possible that these cables affect the sound in the way we see in the graph if they have different impedance.

I don't think the 1DD driver is that sensitive to varying load.

I don't see the controversy personally. Some people will be inclined to overattribute cable differences, others will be more skeptical. KZs move of using different cable types to differentiate product variants won't change that. Unpopular opinion maybe but I think it's realistic.

Anyway EDC Pro at less than 5€ deserves to be reported here

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005007474346897.html

Great deal. Probably still the best overall KZ to date tuning wise. And the best tuned IEM below $25 if your tastes are like mine.

 

[USER]

I mostly use and trust yours and PW measurements but this site measured all three.
View attachment 401648

Paul Wasabi tested the Silver cable version ("less" bassy):

View attachment 401663

So checking my EDC PRO results against the remaining squig.link ones shows that PW's copy is an outlier. I'd just call it a quality control issue then as so far there is no evidence that there are more like it.

The cable doesn't make a difference, just in case.

Does that mean that the PW Saga Bass Enhanced is actually the Balanced version? While it would be smart to wait for more measurements before saying anything conclusive, I am in agreement with you guys that my copy of the Saga is the "balanced" version, as it should be. (So we are back to square one, but from a different perspective as the PW Saga Bass result is confusing, lol.)

 

[mc.god]

So checking my EDC PRO results against the remaining squig.link ones shows that PW's copy is an outlier. I'd just call it a quality control issue then as so far there is no evidence that there are more like it.

View attachment 401844View attachment 401845

The cable doesn't make a difference, just in case.
View attachment 401846

Does that mean that the PW Saga Bass Enhanced is actually the Balanced version? While it would be smart to wait for more measurements before saying anything conclusive, I am in agreement with you guys that my copy of the Saga is the "balanced" version, as it should be. (So we are back to square one, but from a different perspective as the PW Saga Bass result is confusing, lol.)

View attachment 401847

Confronting 3 squigs that has Saga Bass:

The results seem pretty consistent to me, with the big difference in PW graph bass region, being around 5 db lower than the other 2.
What we can speculate is:

1. PW EDC Pro is a "bad" unit and his Saga is actually the Balanced version;
2. PW units are both good and his measurements fixture has something different that generates a less tight fit, so less bass.

I would consider hypothesis n. 2 more realistic, but then we should have this bass differences in all his measurements, something I actually didn't check at the moment, unless it's something specific with KZ shells.

 

[muza_1]

my copy of the Saga is the "balanced" version, as it should be

After some more listening I think, yes is the balanced, the Bass version has more bass that extend into the mids and and is actually more sensitive, the EDC Pro and the Balanced version sound close but I think the Saga is a little bit better, implementation or metal shell maybe?


So instead if the TRN MT5 I received the ST5 (4-5 times the price) but I really wanted the MT5 so I ordered again same price, $8.

The ST5 is nothing special especially for the price, heavy on the mid-bass and wired treble, thin and a bit harsh I did not like them but for $8 I'm not going to return them is not worth the hassle is either the drawer or give them away. EDIT. The more I listen to them the less I like them.

 

[mc.god]

So instead if the TRN MT5 I received the ST5 (4-5 times the price) but I really wanted the MT5 so I ordered again same price, $8.

The ST5 is nothing special especially for the price, heavy on the mid-bass and wired treble, thin and a bit harsh I did not like them but for $8 I'm not going to return them is not worth the hassle is either the drawer or give them away. EDIT. The more I listen to them the less I like them.

Lol, one would say "how lucky!" but looking at their graph and from your impressions it doesn't really seem the case. At least they should have a good set of accessory, the modular cable alone is worth more than that $8.

 

[USER]

Confronting 3 squigs that has Saga Bass:

View attachment 401877
View attachment 401880
View attachment 401882

The results seem pretty consistent to me, with the big difference in PW graph bass region, being around 5 db lower than the other 2.
What we can speculate is:

1. PW EDC Pro is a "bad" unit and is Saga is actually the Balanced version;
2. PW units are both good and his measurements fixture has something different that generates a less tight fit, so less bass.

I would consider hypothesis n. 2 more realistic, but then we should have this bass differences in all his measurements, something I actually didn't check at the moment, unless it's something specific with KZ shells.

I'm still thinking his measurements are OK. Historically my results have matched up very well with PWs. One other thing complicating this is that because squig.link limits the amount of data it can store for each account he is only measuring one channel more often. The other results show some interesting channel balance differences in the bass region (which interestingly are not in mine). So who knows if PW's results provide a more skewed view one way or the other.

The fact that my results nicely overlap with his in the bass region makes me think that his measurement isn't suffering from a leak and that they are possibly the same IEM. Note that the difference below 50Hz is due to me correcting my results in a way that he doesn't. So consider them equal. These results are closer in the bass region than all the other Saga bass results are compared to themselves!

 

[muza_1]

Lol, one would say "how lucky!" but looking at their graph and from your impressions it doesn't really seem the case. At least they should have a good set of accessory, the modular cable alone is worth more than that $8.

Considering their original price of around $60 (in 2022) this things are bad, yes the cable is nice but no mic/control, tips not so much.

Now my budget MT5 are not so budget anymore , still I like the Orca and they seem to be the same thing so not bad even at double the price.

 

[mc.god]

I'm still thinking his measurements are OK. Historically my results have matched up very well with PWs. One other thing complicating this is that because squig.link limits the amount of data it can store for each account he is only measuring one channel more often. The other results show some interesting channel balance differences in the bass region (which interestingly are not in mine). So who knows if PW's results provide a more skewed view one way or the other.

View attachment 401893View attachment 401895View attachment 401892

The fact that my results nicely overlap with his in the bass region makes me think that his measurement isn't suffering from a leak and that they are possibly the same IEM. Note that the difference below 50Hz is due to me correcting my results in a way that he doesn't. So consider them equal. These results are closer in the bass region than all the other Saga bass results are compared to themselves!

View attachment 401896

Now I'm probably a bit lost in all of this, so in the end Saga Bass and EDC Pro should be very very close and probably you actually received a Saga Bass as you initially hypothesized? Looking at the box picture you posted saying OFC cable it could be a misprint related to the other new model Dawn, where the bassier version is the one with OFC cable, so in your case OFC cable = Bass version.
But maybe now I'm just adding more chaos

 

[USER]

Now I'm probably a bit lost in all of this, so in the end Saga Bass and EDC Pro should be very very close and probably you actually received a Saga Bass as you initially hypothesized? Looking at the box picture you posted saying OFC cable it could be a misprint related to the other new model Dawn, where the bassier version is the one with OFC cable, so in your case OFC cable = Bass version.
But maybe now I'm just adding more chaos

Haha. Not quite. I ordered the balanced version and thought it was the bass version as it matched PW's bass results. Now it seems that I got the balanced version I ordered and the question is if PWs is actually the balanced version as well as they pretty much match.

On my part this confusion stems from the fact that I was expecting the bass version to match the EDC Pro and the balanced version to have lower bass and a curve that more resembles Harman. That is what I really wanted --and not just another EDC Pro with slightly tamer highs (a good thing). So perhaps wishful thinking made me jump to conclusions more easily. I still think that a version with less bass than what the balanced version shows would be ideal for me so I am a little disappointed.

More, there seems to be two different boxes, with one only stating the cable version (which should not make a difference and I can confirm this if you guys REALLY need me to as I have both styles of cable), and one that distinguishes between the bass and balanced version. This only adds to the confusion.

Basically, I thought I received the wrong version but now *I* think PW did. That PW's EDC Pro is different than all the rest is another thing altogether and can be ignored.

 

[mc.god]

Haha. Not quite. I ordered the balanced version and thought it was the bass version as it matched PW's bass results. Now it seems that I got the balanced version I ordered and the question is if PWs is actually the balanced version as well as they pretty much match.

On my part this confusion stems from the fact that I was expecting the bass version to match the EDC Pro and the balanced version to have lower bass and a curve that more resembles Harman. That is what I really wanted --and not just another EDC Pro with slightly tamer highs (a good thing). So perhaps wishful thinking made me jump to conclusions more easily. I still think that a version with less bass than what the balanced version shows would be ideal for me so I am a little disappointed.

More, there seems to be two different boxes, with one only stating the cable version (which should not make a difference and I can confirm this if you guys REALLY need me to as I have both styles of cable), and one that distinguishes between the bass and balanced version. This only adds to the confusion.

Basically, I thought I received the wrong version but now *I* think PW did. That PW's EDC Pro is different than all the rest is another thing altogether and can be ignored.

Ok, now it's clearer. I mentioned the cables matter since it seems to me that Saga are sold with only one type of cable, you can choose mic or no-mic but not the material, so the indication on your box of Silver\OFC is probably a bad production batch of boxes originally destined to the new Dawn.

 

[muza_1]

Quick update on the Saga after listening for a a bit more.

The Bass version is indeed more bassy and it extends into the mids interfering a little, it is noticeable and can be too much in some tracks.
The Balanced version although a bit bass heavy (I think it works in their favor) it did not affect the mids too much and the sound is balanced and smooth very similar to the EDC Pro the only differences to me are highs, in the EDC Pro are a hair elevated and a bit metallic and the sound feels somewhat thinner/open(?) it might just be because of the lighter shell and depending on the material it can be a good thing. There is also a small difference in sensibility the EDC Pro is a bit louder.

If you already have the EDC Pro the Saga Balanced is just a marginal upgrade in sound and is only worth it if you want alloy shells* or more bass with the Bass Enhanced version.

*With mine there is a problem with condensation which can be reduced by changing tips but still bothersome.

Ok, now it's clearer. I mentioned the cables matter since it seems to me that Saga are sold with only one type of cable, you can choose mic or no-mic but not the material, so the indication on your box of Silver\OFC is probably a bad production batch of boxes originally destined to the new Dawn.

I think you are right about them having a bad box batch, I received the Balanced in the "cable" box and the Bass Enhanced in the correct box.

 

[mc.god]

Quick update on the Saga after listening for a a bit more.

The Bass version is indeed more bassy and it extends into the mids interfering a little, it is noticeable and can be too much in some tracks.
The Balanced version although a bit bass heavy (I think it works in their favor) it did not affect the mids too much and the sound is balanced and smooth very similar to the EDC Pro the only differences to me are highs, in the EDC Pro are a hair elevated and a bit metallic and the sound feels somewhat thinner/open(?) it might just be because of the lighter shell and depending on the material it can be a good thing. There is also a small difference in sensibility the EDC Pro is a bit louder.

If you already have the EDC Pro the Saga Balanced is just a marginal upgrade in sound and is only worth it if you want alloy shells* or more bass with the Bass Enhanced version.

EDC Pro for me are already a bit too much bassy, so Saga Bass is certainly not for me at all, and don't plan to try the Balanced too, since I use EDC Pro only on the move in noisy environment where the extra bass are a benefit, but my preference is for more neutral, leaning to bright, presentation.
I feel the same about EDC Pro highs, I used them with stock large tips until yesterday, now I'm trying TRN T-Tips and they seems to smooth a bit the response there.

 

[muza_1]

I feel the same about EDC Pro highs, I used them with stock large tips until yesterday, now I'm trying TRN T-Tips and they seems to smooth a bit the response there.

I use them with T-Tips and the highs remain a bit metallic but nothing bothersome, ironically I switched to the stock large tips for the Saga because with the T-Tips I was having condensation problems but sound and seal remain the same.

 

[mc.god]

I use them with T-Tips and the highs remain a bit metallic but nothing bothersome, ironically I switched to the stock large tips for the Saga because with the T-Tips I was having condensation problems but sound and seal remain the same.

Yes, tips effect is still marginal. I'll be waiting for your impressions of the (real) MT5, from the only graph i've seen their bass reaponse is really interesting but highs seem in line with EDC Pro, so they could result even brighter.

 

[muza_1]

Yes, tips effect is still marginal. I'll be waiting for your impressions of the (real) MT5, from the only graph i've seen their bass reaponse is really interesting but highs seem in line with EDC Pro, so they could result even brighter.

The new ones arrive in around two weeks but going by the Orca (DDD) which has the same shell and measurements, they are a bit less bright than the EDC Pro and this might be because of personal anatomy/fitting but to me there is no "metallic" edge like in the EDC Pro or even the Saga (to a lesser degree), also mids are a tiny bit more forward (in a good way) in comparison but the overall tonality is close to the KZs. The only thing is that mid-bass might still be a bit elevated for some.

I like them a lot but for outdoor use I prefer a bit more bass, there is also a bit of driver flex but with the Tangzu Sancai (regular bore) tips is gone.

I'll report back when the MT5 arrives, because it has no switches and price point there might be some differences.

 

[InfiniteJester]

Kefine just launched the Klean, which seems to be an upgrade of the Delci that fixes the only issue it had, a little peak in the treble.

Additionally, it is cheaper than the Delci and includes a tunning nozzle.

Given that the Delci is one of my favorite IEMs and that, for my taste, destroys all competition at its price and way above, I will buy the Klean to judge for myself.

It is $49.

 

[mc.god]

Kefine just launched the Klean, which seems to be an upgrade of the Delci that fixes the only issue it had, a little peak in the treble.

Additionally, it is cheaper than the Delci and includes a tunning nozzle.

Given that the Delci is one of my favorite IEMs and that, for my taste, destroys all competition at its price and way above, I will buy the Klean to judge for myself.

It is $49.

View attachment 402192

Pretty interesting, the black nozzle appears a bit aggressive but should still sound fairly balanced given the good amount of bass.
Anyway I would prefer them still cheaper removing the carrying case from the package, since at €45 I'd probably prefer to get a 2nd unit of Sonus as backup (my personal bias).

 

[herr.jemine]

Pretty interesting, the black nozzle appears a bit aggressive but should still sound fairly balanced given the good amount of bass.
Anyway I would prefer them still cheaper removing the carrying case from the package, since at €45 I'd probably prefer to get a 2nd unit of Sonus as backup (my personal bias).

That's interesting, I don't like my 7Hz Sonus at all, I just forced myself to listen to music with it, for me there's something wrong with the BA driver (to me, it sucks), the bass is OK, but I don't have a good stage with them, it's just empty to the right and left in between, there's no reverberation that sounds into the depths of the room, I know that's a psychoacoustic thing..
sometimes certain instruments are too loud and disturbing, as an example with the song here:

 

[markanini]

That's interesting, I don't like my 7Hz Sonus at all, I just forced myself to listen to music with it, for me there's something wrong with the BA driver (to me, it sucks), the bass is OK, but I don't have a good stage with them, it's just empty to the right and left in between, there's no reverberation that sounds into the depths of the room, I know that's a psychoacoustic thing..
sometimes certain instruments are too loud and disturbing, as an example with the song here:

That song has annoying mixing even on speakers. I wouldn't not say it's an IEMs fault for not playing it back pleasingly.