• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Best bang for the buck subwoofer according to ASR

greenpsycho

Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
87
Likes
120
I always use the "auto target" to maybe thats why? i also haven't confirmed the "post correction" results in REW, but I will next time I reconfigure my system (which should be soon!)

for fun - here was one of the sc-10's measurement before correction:
dirac sub1.jpg


by contrast, my elac debut 2.0 b6.2's before measurement:
DIRAC MAINS BEFORE.jpg
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,822
Likes
4,514
I always use the "auto target" to maybe thats why?

No, it's the boost limitation in Dirac. If you want extension to 25Hz you need to apply over 20dB of boost at that frequency. The drivers can take it. The amp they were designed to be paired with applies such boost. If using external DSP such as the miniDSP 2x4HD I would a recommend applying most of the "boost" as a cut, to avoid clipping the output.

The Daytons would require less boost, because they naturally go lower. However, I would (and do) still use an external controller with them in addition to Dirac to linearize their low end prior to correction.

for fun - here was one of the sc-10's measurement before correction:
View attachment 44135

That is as expected.
 

krabapple

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
3,169
Likes
3,717
That's not accurate.

This is accurate: Dual subwoofers, when well-placed, can often provide a smoother frequency response through a wider seating area.

A single subwoofer, when well-placed, can sometimes overcome room modes (might require a little EQ) for the primary listening position. Consequently, a better performing single sub can sometimes be the better choice over two cheaper subs when there is only one listening position..
.
.

Dual subs, if poorly placed, may enhance room mode issues and make things sound worse. So if someone just shoves two subs into a room, might not help to have two.



But surely dual sub woofers with proper placement can ameliorate modal issues too. Floyd Toole has written about the value of two identical subs each at 1/4 width for killing several modes at once.
 

raistlin65

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
2,279
Likes
3,421
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
But surely dual sub woofers with proper placement can ameliorate modal issues too. Floyd Toole has written about the value of two identical subs each at 1/4 width for killing several modes at once.

That's what I said, just not in so many words. Layman's language. I don't use the term "room mode" with that first statement because I often use it in making recommendations to others who are new to subwoofers and/or subwoofer configuration.
 

th0m

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2019
Messages
75
Likes
33
Location
Sweden
How "good" is it to use the high level input/output speaker terminals on subwoofers with those connections? I mean power amp to sub to main speakers using speaker wire. What happens to the signal path in that case? Do the subs crossover simply filter out the lower frequencies and send the higher frequencies "untouched" from the power amp to the speakers?

Maybe a stupid question, but I have quite limited knowledge of subwoofers and am looking for the best way to integrate one into my stereo system.
 

JW001

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
95
Location
East Coast
How "good" is it to use the high level input/output speaker terminals on subwoofers with those connections? I mean power amp to sub to main speakers using speaker wire. What happens to the signal path in that case? Do the subs crossover simply filter out the lower frequencies and send the higher frequencies "untouched" from the power amp to the speakers?

Maybe a stupid question, but I have quite limited knowledge of subwoofers and am looking for the best way to integrate one into my stereo system.

I don't believe that any subwoofer can offer an option to high-pass a high level signal to main speakers. What you can do with some subs (e.g., SVS 1000/2000) is connect the main speakers in parallel with the sub. A speaker-level input to the sub has high impedance, so it shouldn't impact the main speakers.
 

sfdoddsy

Active Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
293
Likes
438
Quite a few subs have (or used to have) high pass outputs.

My Velodyne HGS servo certainly does, although I've never used it.
 

JW001

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
95
Location
East Coast
Th0m and I meant speaker-level inputs. Yes, some subs have those. I looked at Velodyne HGS specs and it doesn't.
 

Mashcky

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
121
Likes
144
Location
Burlington, Vermont
Seeing as there is no general buying advice thread on subwoofers, I feel this would be an appropriate place rather than start a new thread. If this is poor etiquette, please tell so and I’ll happily start a new thread.

I’m looking for driver suggestions to DIY two subwoofers for my main stereo system. I have 400wpc to play with from two ICEPower 125asx2 modules and a 220sqf room. I will purchase DSP for crossovers and bass management (suggestions are welcome). I would like sealed subs up to 15” diameter woofer and up to 3cuft enclosures but smaller is better for marginal trade offs. These are for music, any film use is an afterthought. I’m not sure how deep they need to go, probably 30hz? Looking for input on this as well. I don’t listen terribly loud compared to some - never “reference” volumes or anywhere near 100db.

My budgets is $400-500 not including DSP for two drivers. my goal is to get great bass now but to also be able to scale this setup by doubling the amps and subs and still get similar response in a future, larger room. Future proofing is the reason for considering such large subs, otherwise I’d go a little smaller. As per this and other ASR sub discussion threads I’ve read, goals are flat response, low distortion, and broad listening position. I’ve looked at Dayton HF “cheese” woofers but open to anything, really.
 

bigx5murf

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
522
Likes
343
Seeing as there is no general buying advice thread on subwoofers, I feel this would be an appropriate place rather than start a new thread. If this is poor etiquette, please tell so and I’ll happily start a new thread.

I’m looking for driver suggestions to DIY two subwoofers for my main stereo system. I have 400wpc to play with from two ICEPower 125asx2 modules and a 220sqf room. I will purchase DSP for crossovers and bass management (suggestions are welcome). I would like sealed subs up to 15” diameter woofer and up to 3cuft enclosures but smaller is better for marginal trade offs. These are for music, any film use is an afterthought. I’m not sure how deep they need to go, probably 30hz? Looking for input on this as well. I don’t listen terribly loud compared to some - never “reference” volumes or anywhere near 100db.

My budgets is $400-500 not including DSP for two drivers. my goal is to get great bass now but to also be able to scale this setup by doubling the amps and subs and still get similar response in a future, larger room. Future proofing is the reason for considering such large subs, otherwise I’d go a little smaller. As per this and other ASR sub discussion threads I’ve read, goals are flat response, low distortion, and broad listening position. I’ve looked at Dayton HF “cheese” woofers but open to anything, really.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dsp-lf-low-frequency-dsp-controller--230-520

Are you familiar with using WinISD?
 

raistlin65

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
2,279
Likes
3,421
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
I’m looking for driver suggestions to DIY two subwoofers for my main stereo system. I have 400wpc to play with from two ICEPower 125asx2 modules and a 220sqf room. I will purchase DSP for crossovers and bass management (suggestions are welcome). I would like sealed subs up to 15” diameter woofer and up to 3cuft enclosures but smaller is better for marginal trade offs. These are for music, any film use is an afterthought. I’m not sure how deep they need to go, probably 30hz? Looking for input on this as well. I don’t listen terribly loud compared to some - never “reference” volumes or anywhere near 100db.

Have you looked through the master index of DIY subwoofer projects at AVS forum?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-...4368-master-index-diy-subwoofer-projects.html
 

Bear123

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
796
Likes
1,370
I think a pair of these in 3 ft^3 sealed cabs would perform quite well for a music only system, and would be very inexpensive to expand to four:

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa380-8-15-pro-woofer--295-034

I had a single PA-460 in 4 ft^3, which seems to be the 18" equivalent to the linked 15" version, and it was VERY good on music.

They're so cheap its worth experimenting.....its what I did with the PA-460....it was so cheap I did it just for fun, and turned out to be amazing and I ran it for a year or two before moving to a pair of BMS18n862.($$$$$)
 

Mashcky

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
121
Likes
144
Location
Burlington, Vermont
Have you looked through the master index of DIY subwoofer projects at AVS forum?
Thank you, I’ll take a look. I’m mostly lost as to what I should look at beyond Dayton so this is a big help.
 

Mashcky

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
121
Likes
144
Location
Burlington, Vermont
They're so cheap its worth experimenting.....its what I did with the PA-460....it was so cheap I did it just for fun, and turned out to be amazing and I ran it for a year or two before moving to a pair of BMS18n862.($$$$$)
They’re so cheap and sensitive that I could get four and use my ICEPower modules in stereo mode... that is quite tempting. My concern is that I’d find myself wanting more too soon.

I’m a little skeptical that distortion matters for such low frequencies. Is there good evidence that a lower distortion subwoofer is appreciable? If not, I can’t make a good case against cheap pro woofers.
 

Bear123

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
796
Likes
1,370
I think the PA-460 is one of those items that just punches WAY above what one would think based on its price and specs. I still have it in the attic......not sure what shipping would cost to you if you want to try one. I had mine in the P/E 4 ft^3 sealed flat pack cab powered with one channel of an Inuke6000/NX6000.
 

Mashcky

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
121
Likes
144
Location
Burlington, Vermont
When it comes to using "professional" woofers that are high sensitivity, low xmax, and don't produce sound as deep as their "hifi" equivalents, is there an issue with simply using DSP to augment lower frequencies? After modeling some of the Dayton Audio PA models, I noticed those subwoofers could take upward of 20db boost to the lower frequencies while still being driven below their power rating. Put another way, if a speaker has very high sensitivity, does the frequency response really matter so long as the driver can produce the SPL you want at the desires frequencies? Presumably distortion rises but I don't imagine it'd be very audible.
 

digitalfrost

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
1,521
Likes
3,086
Location
Palatinate, Germany
Well you will need to pump significant power into the woofer, and also, you need the digital headroom for this kind of boost, which again limits your maximum volume. That said, why not. If you took all relevant parameters into account and still arrive at the desired SPL with a reasonable amplifier, it's all good.
 

Neddy

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
754
Likes
1,019
Location
Wisconsin
I assume that's generally the case - I added something like 6-8db boost @ 22hz to my JBL 4645C. Impressive.
While subs are almost too broad a category to make recommendations on, I will share that, for the something under $300 I paid for the basically unused (came out of a failing commercial studio) 4645C was a pretty good bargain. Not the deepest or best performing sub out there, and takes up a good chunk of room (literally), but man does it pack the wallop down low....dynamics are excellent.
Having said that, if I were to start fresh, I'd sure look close at the various servo driven ones available today.
 
Top Bottom