Best AV Processor under $3k? Lexicon MC-10, Anthem AVM 60, or something else?

[cbrents73]

scratch that one then...

All equipment has a break-in period - most just don't know how long it is or don't discuss it...Breaking equipment in also means having a signal playing through it, not just being turned on. The signal playing through it also doesn't have to be loud. If you can put your ear up to the speaker and hear sound coming out, it's breaking in. Thanks!

 

[cbrents73]

Why?

It's a lot like a car getting better gas mileage after about the first 5000 miles. Lots of circuits, capacitors, power supplies, etc. need time to work, charge and discharge, and their characteristics will change from when first taken out of the box. A lot happens in the first 8-10 hours, but it will continuously get better till you hit a point where it becomes as good as it can be. With out products, 300 hours is approximately that amount of time.
Audio Research has an amp that they recommend a 600 hour break in. All equipment has a break in period, some pay attention to it, some don't.

 

[stunta]

It's a lot like a car getting better gas mileage after about the first 5000 miles. Lots of circuits, capacitors, power supplies, etc. need time to work, charge and discharge, and their characteristics will change from when first taken out of the box. A lot happens in the first 8-10 hours, but it will continuously get better till you hit a point where it becomes as good as it can be. With out products, 300 hours is approximately that amount of time.
Audio Research has an amp that they recommend a 600 hour break in. All equipment has a break in period, some pay attention to it, some don't.

Curious, has Anthem performed measurements before & after break-in to see if this break-in changes the output? I am far from an expert, but I thought break-in is only applicable when there are moving parts.

Also, why not break-in at the factory before shipping the unit out?

 

[cbrents73]

I'm sorry for this "misuse" of you, but I have a question about a function of the Anthem AVR's.
I wrote the Anthem support, but got no response.

My question is about Dolby Volume and ARC.
Is it able to use Dolby Volume, when ARC is activated or not?

On Receiver's with Dirac it's not able to use any loudness function like Dolby Volume, when Dirac is activated.
On the "mainstream" AVR's like D+M, Yamaha etc. it's possible.

So I'm wondering hot it's at Anthem

Hello, on our current generation product (AVM60, MRX1120,720, and 520) Dolby Volume does not disengage ARC when used. However, it does disengage the Height Channels for Dolby Atmos & DTS when using object based material.

 

[cbrents73]

Curious, has Anthem performed measurements before & after break-in to see if this break-in changes the output? I am far from an expert, but I thought break-in is only applicable when there are moving parts.

Also, why not break-in at the factory before shipping the unit out?

Hello,

Great question!

Break in won't show in any measurements - you just have to hear and experience it - better equipment will be more obvious. Many will argue that it's all smoke-and-mirrors.

We sell/ship product all over the world - 70 Countries - there's absolutely no way to hook up and break in product before it ships.

 

[PierreV]

Break in won't show in any measurements

Oh, I see. How was the 300 hours period established then?

you just have to hear and experience it - better equipment will be more obvious.

So, that is essentially faith-based and if that doesn't happen we need better equipment?

 

[BDWoody]

the unit takes about 300 hours to break in, which is about two weeks of 24/7 straight playing.

Many will argue that it's all smoke-and-mirrors.

Because it's nonsense.

Doesn't show up in measurements? You can't be serious...

 

[cbrents73]

Oh, I see. How was the 300 hours period established then?



So, that is essentially faith-based and if that doesn't happen we need better equipment?

A number of us internally have done it. When we do trade shows, we do try to burn in our equipment before auditioning it. We recommend our Dealers do it. Good Dealers will talk about it with all of the equipment they sell and usually know the amount of time on all of their products.

To reiterate, break in happens with ALL equipment, but the better the equipment is, the more obvious the differences are.

None of this is new info. Lots of manufacturers can tell you how much break in is required of their equipment.

 

[Vasr]

I thought electronics break-in was an invention to prevent people from acting on buyer's remorse, to let inertia set in to over-ride return impulses, and to remove short-term memory of any other sound experiences so whatever you are listening to becomes the reference.

@cbrents73 , you should stop going down this rathole in this site at least (regardless of what you believe or what the reality may be) if you want to retain even a modicum of credibility. Friendly tip.

 

[cbrents73]

Because it's nonsense.

Doesn't show up in measurements? You can't be serious...

I'm just here to share as much information about our products as I can with as much transparency and honesty I can. Having owned a High Performance AV Salon for a number of years, worked as a specialty AV Manufacturers Rep - representing many different brands of AV products, and now working directly with Paradigm and Anthem, I'm happy to pass on the knowledge I've learned from many of our Industry Greats. I'm not here to debate and argue - people can make their own educated decisions based on my recommendations and advice. Thanks!

 

[cbrents73]

I thought electronics break-in was an invention to prevent people from acting on buyer's remorse, to let inertia set in to over-ride return impulses, and to remove short-term memory of any other sound experiences so whatever you are listening to becomes the reference.

@cbrents73 , you should stop going down this rathole in this site at least (regardless of what you believe or what the reality may be) if you want to retain even a modicum of credibility. Friendly tip.

Opinions vary...I share what I've learned from people in this industry and what I've learned myself over the last two decades. People can make their own educated decisions based on what I share. Thanks.

 

[Lonestar1027]

Real question, do you think you could tell the difference between a "broken in" component and a brand new one in a double blind test? If I buy a display model, does the same break in period apply? If I unplug the component and let it sit for a while, does it need another break in?

 

[snickers]

Hello, on our current generation product (AVM60, MRX1120,720, and 520) Dolby Volume does not disengage ARC when used. However, it does disengage the Height Channels for Dolby Atmos & DTS when using object based material.

Hi, thank you for the response. Does I interpret your answer right, that on the new lines it will also work for 3D audio?
It's great, that it works with ARC together, but without the heights it's also a little bit disadvantageous.

 

[cbrents73]

Real question, do you think you could tell the difference between a "broken in" component and a brand new one in a double blind test? If I buy a display model, does the same break in period apply? If I unplug the component and let it sit for a while, does it need another break in?

Real question, do you think you could tell the difference between a "broken in" component and a brand new one in a double blind test? If I buy a display model, does the same break in period apply? If I unplug the component and let it sit for a while, does it need another break in?

I stated in an earlier post, equipment needs to play - not just be turned on. The break in process doesn't repeat, once a component is there, it's there. Now, some things take time to warm up - like amps, and they'll get better the longer they're on and playing, but after a some time, they'll be as good as they are. That's why I recommend leaving equipment on and not shutting it down. Tube amps, however, it's just not practical to leave them on unless you want to buy and replace tubes more frequently. Our STR Power Amp has actual Temperature readings and I can tell you it sounds way better at 105 degrees operating than it does at 85 degrees. It just takes time to get warmed up. It's like getting in the car when its 10 degrees outside and then loosens up after it's been running a while.

In a double blind listening between a product that's broke in and one that isn't, in many cases yes - it just depends on what it is and is everything else exactly the same? That's the hardest part, replicating the exact same setup.

I'm really good with whatever people want to believe in regards to this - I just don't want to debate and argue about it - in the end it doesn't matter. I know what I've learned and experienced doing this for so long and am convicted in what I believe. I'll always be up front about it - meaning I'll give my opinion when asked. Thanks.

 

[BDWoody]

I'm not here to debate and argue

This is a science forum, where we challenge these types of claims, not support them with no reason to other than your say so.

If you can't measure a difference between the broken in one and the non broken in one, how do you know when it's broken in enough?

If you can scrape up anything from your engineering folks to support that, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, it just seems like a way to get a customer to go beyond the return window when the magic differences aren't there.

If you don't want to discuss and support these issues, don't make the claims.

 

[rccarguy]

Speaker and sub burn in, sure as physical parts like surround

But component burn in, not just warm up time?

Nah

 

[miike888]

I stated in an earlier post, equipment needs to play - not just be turned on. The break in process doesn't repeat, once a component is there, it's there. Now, some things take time to warm up - like amps, and they'll get better the longer they're on and playing, but after a some time, they'll be as good as they are. That's why I recommend leaving equipment on and not shutting it down. Tube amps, however, it's just not practical to leave them on unless you want to buy and replace tubes more frequently. Our STR Power Amp has actual Temperature readings and I can tell you it sounds way better at 105 degrees operating than it does at 85 degrees. It just takes time to get warmed up. It's like getting in the car when its 10 degrees outside and then loosens up after it's been running a while.

In a double blind listening between a product that's broke in and one that isn't, in many cases yes - it just depends on what it is and is everything else exactly the same? That's the hardest part, replicating the exact same setup.

I'm really good with whatever people want to believe in regards to this - I just don't want to debate and argue about it - in the end it doesn't matter. I know what I've learned and experienced doing this for so long and am convicted in what I believe. I'll always be up front about it - meaning I'll give my opinion when asked. Thanks.

hi!

but the things you write are really a bunch of real lies!

are you really not more into the science of sound reproduction after decades in buisness?

have you read Floyds comment.....if you know what you are listening to i dont care what you think!

 

[PierreV]

and am convicted in what I believe.

That's indeed the case!

 

[cbrents73]

hi!

but the things you write are really a bunch of real lies!

are you really not more into the science of sound reproduction after decades in buisness?

have you read Floyds comment.....if you know what you are listening to i dont care what you think!

I never realized this is such a pain-point for everyone here? If no one wants to believe that there is any break in with equipment, regardless of what it is, I'm totally fine with that and have absolutely no problem with it.

I'm not here to lie or spread lies, I gave an opinion and am just here to help out with questions based around our products and contribute to that when asked. Thanks.

 

[cbrents73]

Hi, thank you for the response. Does I interpret your answer right, that on the new lines it will also work for 3D audio?
It's great, that it works with ARC together, but without the heights it's also a little bit disadvantageous.

Sorry, I'm unable to comment about anything regarding the new products at this time...