Best AV Processor under $3k? Lexicon MC-10, Anthem AVM 60, or something else?

[Timme]

LOL
"Dirac and Audyssey results are similar (Dirac has a custom target with bass boost), while ARC doesn't look as good below 100Hz."
"The Audyssey result is not shown, but it was comparable to the Dirac result."
You lose
BTW, products tested were at least 5 years old, none of them current.
And nothing there to support your claims of "sounds bad"

I lose? You wanted evidence to support my claims and when I present them you say I lose?

Have you read what is written? Have you looked
At the graphs?

“And finally, the impulse responses, showing impulse measurements for all three front speakers. If anything, Dirac excels with its time domain correction algorithms, as the pristine impulse showing precise LCR alignment shows. ARC shows LCR speakers with imprecise alighnment, while Audyssey curiously seems to show the Center channel with polarity reversed (not sure why).”

“IMO, these simple measurements support what my ears hear, that Dirac Live has a clear edge in room correction technology.”

i dont know where in this I lose? Everyone that
Sees the graphs and reads the post clearly see that
Dirac indeed is the superior DRC compared to ARC and Audyssey


Audyssey full bandwidth correction doesn’t sound as good as Dirac does at full correction.

edit: sorry for my tone, I don’t won’t to be mean

 

[Timme]

That’s a huge difference in terms of impulse response.

Yes, that’s probably why it sounds so much better

 

[Timme]

I’m sorry for being to hard on Audyssey saying it sounds bad. I was a bit too harsh

what I meant to say was that Dirac produces superior results in every way then Audyssey and I my room the difference between the two truly were huge

 

[Robh3606]

In using any room correction software why would you apply the correction full range?? Why no curtain to say 300Hz and lower where the room is in control. I don't see why you would want to try to correct above that where speaker directivity is going to control the in room response, this cannot be corrected for using EQ.

Rob

 

[Vasr]

In using any room correction software why would you apply the correction full range?? Why no curtain to say 300Hz and lower where the room is in control. I don't see why you would want to try to correct above that where speaker directivity is going to control the in room response, this cannot be corrected for using EQ.

Rob

If you are going strictly by the theory of room correction, you are correct. However, in practice it has its uses.

At lower frequencies, the corrections are valid over a larger area. The higher the frequency, narrower the listening position where it applies. Since most listening is from a single or narrow listening positions, it is still useful to do so in a pragmatic sense.

In addition, room eq also serves the purpose of a tonal balance as preferred for listening (as determined by the slopes of the target curve). Systems such as ARC seem to use broader filters at higher end than narrow filters to affect tonal balance without introducing artifacts. You can do the same with target tweaking in Audyssey and Dirac. Room eq purists will probably scream and stomp their feet here saying room eq is for room effects only and nothing else. The pragmatic world is a bit different.

For a recent system that I used "room eq" for, the system showed annoying tizziness at high treble. I was able to remove that with a single shelf filter reducing gain at 8khz+ with a trial-and-error method. Yes, it reduces the treble response somewhat (mostly beyond adult hearing range) but is far more listenable than otherwise. Yes, you could also spend thousands and get cleaner and flatter equipment chain but that is not always an option just so one can be a purist.

 

[rccarguy]

[TE="Vasr, post: 544000, member: 17380"]If you are going strictly by the theory of room correction, you are correct. However, in practice it has its uses.

At lower frequencies, the corrections are valid over a larger area. The higher the frequency, narrower the listening position where it applies. Since most listening is from a single or narrow listening positions, it is still useful to do so in a pragmatic sense.

In addition, room eq also serves the purpose of a tonal balance as preferred for listening (as determined by the slopes of the target curve). Systems such as ARC seem to use broader filters at higher end than narrow filters to affect tonal balance without introducing artifacts. You can do the same with target tweaking in Audyssey and Dirac. Room eq purists will probably scream and stomp their feet here saying room eq is for room effects only and nothing else. The pragmatic world is a bit different.

For a recent system that I used "room eq" for, the system showed annoying tizziness at high treble. I was able to remove that with a single shelf filter reducing gain at 8khz+ with a trial-and-error method. Yes, it reduces the treble response somewhat (mostly beyond adult hearing range) but is far more listenable than otherwise. Yes, you could also spend thousands and get cleaner and flatter equipment chain but that is not always an option just so one can be a purist.[/QUOTE]

Won't THX cinema re-eq sort out treble harshness, bit without doing full range eq.

Lexicon MC-8 has this feature. I don't use it but on the occasion where is a very bright mix, it sorted it out

 

[Sal1950]

In addition, room eq also serves the purpose of a tonal balance as preferred for listening (as determined by the slopes of the target curve). Systems such as ARC seem to use broader filters at higher end than narrow filters to affect tonal balance without introducing artifacts. You can do the same with target tweaking in Audyssey and Dirac. Room eq purists will probably scream and stomp their feet here saying room eq is for room effects only and nothing else. The pragmatic world is a bit different.

For a recent system that I used "room eq" for, the system showed annoying tizziness at high treble. I was able to remove that with a single shelf filter reducing gain at 8khz+ with a trial-and-error method. Yes, it reduces the treble response somewhat (mostly beyond adult hearing range) but is far more listenable than otherwise. Yes, you could also spend thousands and get cleaner and flatter equipment chain but that is not always an option just so one can be a purist.

Yes, Audyssey allows you to set the frequency point where eq is effective so you can pick your poison. Some insist that eq should only be used in the base range and others believe in full range. Both have their points, in many of Amirs reviews he discusses where speaker X has problems in its frequency response and a bit of tweaking here and there provides a much improved listening experience. The software designers have to strike a balance between ease of use and complexity. Being able to decide the width of filters is a excellent option but then we begin to cross the line where Joe Sixpack is outside of his comfort zone and he doesn't want to study for 6 months to understand how to make his system sound it's best. Ideally a user would just setup a mic, push a button and walk away and as the software routines become smarter and smarter a some point we will get there. Maybe ending with a program that leaves us with a small number of options like flat, warm, bright, etc. As it stands now we have been discussing 3 or 4 of the semi-automated options that are at the very bottom of the DRC food chain. They all have strengths and weakness and the final results can vary from excellent to poor with all of them depending on a number of variables. There is quite a number of much better room eq solutions out there but they depend on a much higher level of user knowledge and invested time than even the large percent of members here are willing to invest.

 

[Timme]

In using any room correction software why would you apply the correction full range?? Why no curtain to say 300Hz and lower where the room is in control. I don't see why you would want to try to correct above that where speaker directivity is going to control the in room response, this cannot be corrected for using EQ.

Rob

Impulse response is another thing that Dirac corrects full range but it does this even if
You set curtains to 300hz

dirac corrects less in the high frequencies but it does something that makes it sound better. You really need to hear it yourself

 

[DLxP]

I appreciate your note and understood the true intent, so no worries. When we are allowed to share info and make things public with any of our products, I'll certainly be back here to make an announcement - I'll try to make it kind of like a personalized product launch for "Enthusiasts".

The fact you guys are keeping your eyes on ASR reviews is very exciting. I've been speculating for a while that Anthem could well be the ones to set a benchmark, being as the ASR home theater tests have been performed well ahead of Anthem's new line-up, so you'll know how what you're competing against.

If Anthem releases a new 16+ channel HT processor that looks as good as this...

... and performs well in ASR tests, I will buy the s**t out of it.

 

[Dan1210]

Definitely need to get an avm60 in for review, it could be the darling for under 3k...

 

[Sal1950]

Definitely need to get an avm60 in for review, it could be the darling for under 3k...

And it could be a huge disappointment, would love to see the numbers. And be thrilled if they could bring a multich product to market that would throw out some respectible numbers. I've listened to the integrated and the seperate boxes at a couple audio shows and was impressed with the performance of both. Handsome products at sane pricing, bring em on.

 

[cbrents73]

I have a question.
Is AVM60 roon ready? Or will be in the future?
Thank you.

Unfortunately the AVM60 is not and nor will it be Roon capable.

 

[Dan1210]

Possibly looking at buying an avm60, does anyone know the pre out sensitivity? Looking to pair with Nad M27 input sensitivity @1.3v, the other option being a Denon 3700.

 

[cbrents73]

The fact you guys are keeping your eyes on ASR reviews is very exciting. I've been speculating for a while that Anthem could well be the ones to set a benchmark, being as the ASR home theater tests have been performed well ahead of Anthem's new line-up, so you'll know how what you're competing against.

If Anthem releases a new 16+ channel HT processor that looks as good as this...

View attachment 88545

... and performs well in ASR tests, I will buy the s**t out of it.

Thanks for the note, although I think I'm the only one from our company with "eyes on" this site and since I'm in sales, I can only give you the sizzle.
Our Product Development Team and Engineers are the ones who deliver the steak!

 

[Vasr]

Thanks for the note, although I think I'm the only one from our company with "eyes on" this site and since I'm in sales, I can only give you the sizzle.
Our Product Development Team and Engineers are the ones who deliver the steak!

You can convert sizzle into steak by arranging for an AVM60 to be reviewed by Amir.

Unless you think it is all sizzle and no steak.

Personally, I would root for the next version with the latest bells and whistles so one can buy the previous model at substantial discounts before it is discontinued. Anthem seems to control MAP very well for their units.

 

[snickers]

Thanks for the note, although I think I'm the only one from our company with "eyes on" this site and since I'm in sales, I can only give you the sizzle.
Our Product Development Team and Engineers are the ones who deliver the steak!

I'm sorry for this "misuse" of you, but I have a question about a function of the Anthem AVR's.
I wrote the Anthem support, but got no response.

My question is about Dolby Volume and ARC.
Is it able to use Dolby Volume, when ARC is activated or not?

On Receiver's with Dirac it's not able to use any loudness function like Dolby Volume, when Dirac is activated.
On the "mainstream" AVR's like D+M, Yamaha etc. it's possible.

So I'm wondering hot it's at Anthem

 

[cbrents73]

Possibly looking at buying an avm60, does anyone know the pre out sensitivity? Looking to pair with Nad M27 input sensitivity @1.3v, the other option being a Denon 3700.

Hi Dan, I'm trying to get an official answer, but I can assure you, there isn't anything to be concerned with in regards to this. The AVM60 will work fine with those amps. When/if I get an answer, I'll let you know as soon as I can. Thanks!

 

[cbrents73]

You can convert sizzle into steak by arranging for an AVM60 to be reviewed by Amir.

Unless you think it is all sizzle and no steak.

Personally, I would root for the next version with the latest bells and whistles so one can buy the previous model at substantial discounts before it is discontinued. Anthem seems to control MAP very well for their units.

I have sent a note to Amir and unfortunately, product sent out for review is handled by our marketing department and it's ultimately up to them to decide who they work with. I did let him know that he could certainly reach out to the closest dealer and possibly work with them to get something to test and I did send our department his info, but don't know if they'll pursue it or not? Many Dealers have good return policies and the unit takes about 300 hours to break in, which is about two weeks of 24/7 straight playing. If you don't like it by then, simply return it, but know the return policy ahead of time or work that out with the Dealer prior to purchase. Thanks!

 

[PierreV]

the unit takes about 300 hours to break in, which is about two weeks of 24/7 straight playing.

scratch that one then...

 

[stunta]

the unit takes about 300 hours to break in, which is about two weeks of 24/7 straight playing

Why?