Best Audiophile Bluetooth headphones [2022-12-09]

[majingotan]

Confirmed with my personal subjective bias that my Sony MDR 7506 (DIY cups and BT adapter) at 100 bucks is sonically better than the Focal Bathys both on BT AAC-LC from my iPhone. The Bathys sounds low-res and compressed. I find that those ANC circuitry truly kills details and gives BT sound a bad reputation and Bathys is no exception to this.

If you want the best BT sound, avoid ANC at all costs and stick to Qudelix 5K or the FiiO or or DIY your own BT cables for a sleeker look

 

[asrUser]

 

[markanini]

Confirmed with my personal subjective bias that my Sony MDR 7506 (DIY cups and BT adapter) at 100 bucks is sonically better than the Focal Bathys both on BT AAC-LC from my iPhone. The Bathys sounds low-res and compressed. I find that those ANC circuitry truly kills details and gives BT sound a bad reputation and Bathys is no exception to this.

If you want the best BT sound, avoid ANC at all costs and stick to Qudelix 5K or the FiiO or or DIY your own BT cables for a sleeker look

View attachment 279363

Good call, it will save you money but also you will enjoy any future upgrades more knowing you can discriminate sound regardless of cost.

 

[IAtaman]

Confirmed with my personal subjective bias that my Sony MDR 7506 (DIY cups and BT adapter) at 100 bucks is sonically better than the Focal Bathys both on BT AAC-LC from my iPhone. The Bathys sounds low-res and compressed. I find that those ANC circuitry truly kills details and gives BT sound a bad reputation and Bathys is no exception to this.

If you want the best BT sound, avoid ANC at all costs and stick to Qudelix 5K or the FiiO or or DIY your own BT cables for a sleeker look

Didn't Amir's measurements showed DSP that came with ANC improves tuning and sound quality quite a bit with QC 35II?

Is this view based on anything other than personal experience?

 

[MayaTlab]

Didn't Amir's measurements showed DSP that came with ANC improves tuning and sound quality quite a bit with QC 35II?

Feedback mechanisms are a godsend to solve the FR inconsistencies (positional and inter-individuals) that plague most closed back HPs at low frequencies, but they only operate up to a certain frequency and require the headphones manufacturer to properly understand their impact on the delivered FR (quite a few probably don't). Above that some ANC over-ears can have rather dramatic FR inconsistencies (but then some passive closed backs as well). An illustration of how headphones with a feedback mechanism behave under some circumstances here.

ANC headphones can also produce obtrusive background noises, but for some years already, some models have brought them down to an acceptable level in my opinion ("acceptable" meaning to me that it's low enough to make it worth it to trade off noises from the occlusion effect for a moderate amount of pink-ish background noise).

I wouldn't mind if @majingotan would like to share some thoughts on what could explain how "those ANC circuitry truly kills details and gives BT sound a bad reputation". That's a causal relationship that I don't understand and an opinion that I don't share.

 

[majingotan]

This is just my personal experience comparing a non ANC wired headphone driven by a BT DAC/amp such as the Qudelix 5k against a TWS BT ANC headphone such as the Bathys. The note details just feel harder to notice* on models with built in ANC on all modes (transparency or full effect) and it sounds subjectively worse with ANC off due to DSP not being active (*not that details are absent just lacks that “easier to perceive details without focusing” sensation).

 

[MayaTlab]

This is just my personal experience comparing a non ANC wired headphone driven by a BT DAC/amp such as the Qudelix 5k against a TWS BT ANC headphone such as the Bathys. The note details just feel harder to notice* on models with built in ANC on all modes (transparency or full effect) and it sounds subjectively worse with ANC off (*not that details are absent just lacks that “easier to perceive details without focusing” sensation).

But how do you know that it's caused by the ANC system per se, and not other factors such as FR ?

 

[IAtaman]

Feedback mechanisms are a godsend to solve the FR inconsistencies (positional and inter-individuals) that plague most closed back HPs at low frequencies, but they only operate up to a certain frequency and require the headphones manufacturer to properly understand their impact on the delivered FR (quite a few probably don't).

That is also my understanding. Solderdude's review of QC35II does a good job at explaining feedback / feed-forward and its affect on FR.

This is just my personal experience comparing a non ANC wired headphone driven by a BT DAC/amp such as the Qudelix 5k against a TWS BT ANC headphone such as the Bathys. The note details just feel harder to notice* on models with built in ANC on all modes (transparency or full effect) and it sounds subjectively worse with ANC off (*not that details are absent just lacks that “easier to perceive details without focusing” sensation).

So effectively not any different than saying this cable sounds better than this other cable?

 

[majingotan]

But how do you know that it's caused by the ANC system per se, and not other factors such as FR ?

Yes from my psychoacoustic perspective. It is just me speculating my personal observation and formed my bias from it. It could be that the additional ANC vacuum pressure perception makes it harder for me psychologically to enjoy my music listening session thus having that less detailed perception compared to the purely analog signal from the DAC that’s been fed to the headphone. I would definitely say some people aren’t affected by ANC sensation and thus have relative to wired headphone music listening perception

 

[MayaTlab]

Yes from my psychoacoustic perspective. It is just me speculating my personal observation and formed my bias from it. It could be that the additional ANC vacuum pressure perception makes it harder for me psychologically to enjoy my music listening session thus having that less detailed perception compared to the purely analog signal from the DAC that’s been fed to the headphone. I would definitely say some people aren’t affected by ANC sensation and thus have relative to wired headphone music listening perception

That's interesting, unfortunately on the question of how the reported "eardrum suck" / "pressure" sensation may affect SQ perception, I don't think that I've read a lot of particularly conclusive articles.
There are these two but they raise more questions than they answer, and don't really concern SQ per se :

SoundStage! Solo | SoundStageSolo.com - Eardrum Suck: The Mystery Solved!

Reviews of headphones, earphones, and headphone amplifiers

www.soundstagesolo.com

Do Noise-Cancelling Headphones Hurt Your Ears? You’re Not Alone.

Before buying noise-cancelling headphones, you should think about what kinds of noise you want to reduce—and find out if you’re susceptible to “eardrum suck.”

www.nytimes.com

Do you feel that sensation with both ANC modes on the Bathys ?

 

[majingotan]

That's interesting, unfortunately on the question of how the reported "eardrum suck" / "pressure" sensation may affect SQ perception, I don't think that I've read a lot of particularly conclusive articles.
There are these two but they raise more questions than they answer, and don't really concern SQ per se :

SoundStage! Solo | SoundStageSolo.com - Eardrum Suck: The Mystery Solved!

Reviews of headphones, earphones, and headphone amplifiers

www.soundstagesolo.com

Do Noise-Cancelling Headphones Hurt Your Ears? You’re Not Alone.

Before buying noise-cancelling headphones, you should think about what kinds of noise you want to reduce—and find out if you’re susceptible to “eardrum suck.”

www.nytimes.com

Do you feel that sensation with both ANC modes on the Bathys ?

Exactly described by the article! Thanks for the link! While it’s not as bad as others experienced in the article, there’s definitely that lower pressure sensation and that makes ANC headphones sound like there’s a thick foam dampening applied to the driver diaphragm that “kills details” in my case. It similar to powering as an example Susvara on a older laptop on-board sound and small details are not as apparent as compared to a properly driven amp.

I experienced this sensation in equal severity in all of ANC TWS headphones such as the one Sony XM4, XM3, QC35 II, Airpods Max, Airpods Pro 2 and the latest one being the Bathys

 

[oceansize]

Any without excessive bass? I tried QC35, way too much sub bass for my taste. Showing only +1 dB from Rtings target on bass, and QC35II shows +2 dB. What to try? Shure Aonic 50, Senneheiser Momentum 3? aptx HD would be nice.

Late reply, but I have Momentum 3 AEBT and Momentum 4 - my take is that the 3 has bloated bass and that the 4 sounds more natural in that regard.

 

[pavuol]

Good work and nice table, definitely needs a column for supported codecs, if it aims for "audiophiles"

 

[dridel]

Added T+A Solitaire T

I'm seriously considering getting a pair of these but I could only find a handful of reviews and no measurements online. Surprising for a pair of cans hailed by some as the best BT headphones out there. Has anyone tried them out?

 

[LTig]

Just for the records: AKG K371 bt has no ANC.

 

[metasharp]

T+A Solitaire T topic on ASR:

T+A Solitaire T

Hello all. After enjoying my B&W P7 for a few years, I decided it's time to move on and upgrade. The Px8 were the natural upgrade and have fairly good reviews (I particularly dig the looks of the McLaren edition), but after learning they no longer allow for passive mode (90% of my use), I was...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[metasharp]

Many results can be found here :

AutoEq/results/oratory1990 at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Automatic headphone equalization from frequency responses - jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

github.com

 

[metasharp]

I tried to make a single graph to better compare the high end options to Target Harman Curve and the SOTA wired Dan Clark Audio Stealth.

Bang & Olufsen H95 => Too far, disqualified.
B&W PX8 => Too far, disqualified.

Let's remove them :

Who's the most out of target now... Well, another round of removal:

Final Audio UX3000 =>Too much below the curve in many spots
Mark Levinson 5909 => Too much above the target, specifically in mids and trebles

Let's remove them :

What now? Well, I would finally remove the AirPods Max => too much bass, weakness in mids.

And our winner is the Focal Bathys, competing this way with the Dan Clark Stealth, which, let's face it, is better, really better, no discussion

 

[MrOtto]

Shure Aonic 50. Even got LDAC.