There are better drivers for less money that dont have those issues that you can buy - this driver is nothing special, apart from that its expensive .
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BEST 10inch subwoofer for sealed enclosure?
- Thread starter sloth_kwj
- Start date
He probably didn't look very well:
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That is really close, arguably the Purify 6.5" midrange is a bit better. Distortion wise the dome is a bit better though, but only > 1kHz. When crossing to a tweeter, that should not be an issue at all.
If the driver has freq response breakups —- thats much worse . You have to look at the entire picture .
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So what is the size and volume of the cabinet? Apart from shallow sub drivers, the B&C 12TBX100 is a quite shallow conventional driver. Based on the low Vas and Qts two of them could work in the same volume as two 10" woofers. Based on the Fs, the Fb would be a lot higher, so I guess it might need some epic amount of voltage boost to counter the higher roll-off. On the other hand the cone area being like +70% compared to two 10" might help with that issue, as well as using 4ohm versions in parallel (Also an opamp based (i.e. analog) LT booster might not be that complicated, if headroom is an issue.) This driver has a flat surround, would look like more flush with the side walls of the box.
We do not use Peerless XLS, we use a Scan-Speak driver (which I guess admittedly has its origins in the XLS/XXLS).
I also don't think GRIMM uses Peerless, but rather they use Seas.
Thanks for the correction.
According the GRIMM subwoofer : They use both
The original LS1s have peerless xls .
LS1s - Grimm Audio
A pair of LS1s stereo subwoofers integrate seamlessly with the LS1 or LS1a. Its phase corrected crossover at 70 Hz is already build in the LS1, so just adding the subs turns the system into a unique phase coherent three-way system. Although the LS1 on its own can play down to 40 Hz with...
www.grimmaudio.com
Here are some Klippel test made by ErinH for the shallow SB Acoustic SW.
I really don't fully understand them, only that the XMAX is not what the manufacturer said it is.
Also, this driver (one of the three variants) it's used by Triad, Ascendo and Leon. IDK if they are the best nor even good.
Aaros A10-UT Subwoofer
With solid billet aluminum baffles and highly specialized drivers, Leon’s Aaros Series subwoofers are incredibly compact and offer more tonal balance than traditional large subs. At only 4.5″ deep, our unique A10-UT subwoofer has been developed to be convertible to a forward-firing or...
www.leonspeakers.com
SMSG10-P
www.aia-cinema.com
ONWALL BRONZE SLIMSUB
triadspeakers.com
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ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Voice Coil Magazine, has conducted many, many driver tests over the years with very good data.
I would get a free subscription and peruse them.
Also Audio Express https://audioxpress.com/page/Voice-Coil-Magazine is the website for the magazine but not all driver tests are available on the website.
It is very normal for the Xmax to vary based on the testing methods/interpretations of the data.
Very few published Xmax ratings are comparable with standards or each other as there are many ways Xmax can be thought of.
Even some Purifi drivers and many other famous drivers don't meet the standard Erin uses.
While a standard would be nice, singling out SB acoustics is disingenuous as they are not alone, plus their drivers sound phenomenal for the price.
Many companies are now using Klippel systems in their designs and drivers and often the specs still vary.
That said Parts Express recent Epique drivers and several drivers from MISCO/Bold North Audio met very lofty specs in real life and were designed with Klippel equipment.
MISCO/Bold North by the way is associated with or actually is Warkwyn, the North American distributor for Klippel products.
www.miscospeakers.com
I'd expect some pretty great products from them in the coming years.
I would get a free subscription and peruse them.
Also Audio Express https://audioxpress.com/page/Voice-Coil-Magazine is the website for the magazine but not all driver tests are available on the website.
It is very normal for the Xmax to vary based on the testing methods/interpretations of the data.
Very few published Xmax ratings are comparable with standards or each other as there are many ways Xmax can be thought of.
Even some Purifi drivers and many other famous drivers don't meet the standard Erin uses.
While a standard would be nice, singling out SB acoustics is disingenuous as they are not alone, plus their drivers sound phenomenal for the price.
Many companies are now using Klippel systems in their designs and drivers and often the specs still vary.
That said Parts Express recent Epique drivers and several drivers from MISCO/Bold North Audio met very lofty specs in real life and were designed with Klippel equipment.
MISCO/Bold North by the way is associated with or actually is Warkwyn, the North American distributor for Klippel products.
MISCO Speakers | Test & Measurement Services
MISCO customers gain access to measure linear and large signal parameters, a Klippel Near Field Scanner for 3D sound radiation, and more—all in house.
I'd expect some pretty great products from them in the coming years.
Loudspeaker project pad on Facebook already discussed this and tested. The outcome is that dsp notch does not reduce the distortion, but analog crossover does. It was a shocking result that shocked many industry professionals. The guess by those people is maybe the impedance increase reduce the distortion.
Analog crossovers CAN in certain cases bring lower distortion in the higher registers, but thats mainly because the amplifier used might work better with a high impedance . In an all active system, you can have a resistor in series with the tweeter and in some cases gain a lower distortion this way with static measurement signals. I have done a lot of experimenting on this with the HYBRID project. My conclusion is that the sound dont get better, because real music is functioning different to static test tones. The low impedance from amplifier to tweeter in an active crossover is infact sounding better with real music. This is apparently the conclusion that Linn products and Genelec seems to have, to.
I would anyway avoid drivers that needs a notch filter- they gonna sound less good than drivers with a smooth response.
KSTR
Major Contributor
It's not the only solution, but it is a simple and efficient way to create the necessary conditions:
- reduce the level at the frequencies of interest.
- increase source impedance so that the distorted "back-EMF" does not cause re-entrant distortion.
See https://purifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/220211_R05-Notchfilter.pdf
You can have that in active technology as well, by using high source impedance (aka "current drive") at higher frequencies.
I've been advocating (for years by now) that each and every driver has a specific source impedance profile vs. frequency where overall performance (not only wrt distortion) is best, and this profile seldom is zero ohms (like with a standard voltage output amplifier).
Very true, and all this can be done active as you said, with the advantages that comes with that.
With that said- my own experience with higher source impedances for tweeters is that its not always a guarantee for a better sound.
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The issue, as Erin noted in that post, is the test case (open baffle) differs greatly from the intended use case (tiny closed box). There are IMO similar issues with the big Peerless/Tymphany woofer. The one with the ~8” (20cm) voicecoil, similar to the woofer they make for SVS’s flagship sub.
What’s common in all those subs? They are extremely shallow: roughly 4” to 5” deep.
The Ascendo site is interesting because it provides some SPL data. US custom install companies seem allergic to public data disclosure.
KSTR
Major Contributor
"active" as in separate amps for each driver and with the amps specifically optimized for the drivers.
active crossovers can be done in a dsp. So ”active” is not different because a dsp does all the crossovers and eq.
”Active” can also be done with IC:s in the analog domain.
Eh, not really, yes building really good speakers requires comprehensive knowledge of various subjects, but it's not rocket science, you don't need do emply hundreds of PhD level engineers like nasa to build speakers on high level.
There are some DIY builders who do stuff on genelec level and even surpass them in certain things. Take March Audio, isn't that a venture of one man? His speaker scores 7.0 on Olive preference score function...