BEST 10inch subwoofer for sealed enclosure?

[sarumbear]

It will also limit subwoofer selection greatly.

I agree but then again the same can be said for matching mid and tweeter. However, I realise that you may reduce the tweeter volume within reason at the crossover.

 

[voodooless]

The SB woofers you mention might be good , but we want some evidence that they really are as good as you think .

There are some Kippel tests to be found. Looks like that at least Xmax is about half the spec (with generous 20%THD limit)

 

[sarumbear]

Hello,
Can you explain why the placement of the subwoofer in the same box as the other speakers is a design compromise?
What would be the ideal design?

Among the ASR members separate subwoofer is mostly considered a must have. Not everyone agrees.

I personally think the reason for this subwoofer love comes from the preference score, which is shown to improve dramatically with the addition of subwoofer.

I see subwoofer as a solution for designs with constraints and can’t understand why one starts a design that use a separate subwoofer. Similarly, I also don’t understand using a crossover frequency lower than 150Hz.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

The SB woofers you mention might be good , but we want some evidence that they really are as good as you think .
I haven´t found any reviews that can back up your claims, and I havent seen those subwoofers used by other highly regarded brands that make subwoofers.
Peerless xls 10 and 12 inch woofers can be found in many other subwoofer brands ( Sigberg , Amphion, legend acoustics, GRIMM and many more …)

Amphion and some other company which I can't remember have used the SW26

 

[Tangband]

There are some Kippel tests to be found. Looks like that at least Xmax is about half the spec (with generous 20%THD limit)

Is this standard for SB ? The same can apparently be said about SB 17CAC-35 , xmax is half the spec.

 

[sloth_kwj]

I don't want to use separate subwoofer. Also I'm using passive crossover in T/M because tame to big breakup in middome and in low passive crossover, it cost a lot. Also I prefer sealed enclosure no port, no PR.

 

[dwkdnvr]

In terms of overall design, I tend to agree that the Purifi 8" is a bit of an odd choice if you're only going to run it 80-1000Hz. The 6.5 should handle that without any problems.

The CSS SDX10 is definitely worth looking at as a sealed-box 10" sub. High quality and not outrageously expensive, and does well in sealed alignments around 1 cu ft.

 

[Tangband]

I don't want to use separate subwoofer. Also I'm using passive crossover in T/M because tame to big breakup in middome and in low passive crossover, it cost a lot. Also I prefer sealed enclosure no port, no PR.

Hmm… I dont want to be rude but… Why are you starting this thread if you already have all the answers ? A bunch of people have already explained that building everything with 4 drivers in a small cabinett is not optimal . Why do you want to go 4 way and use passive crossovers, when you probably can get much better results with a 3-way in such small boxes with a dsp crossover ?

If you go for the three drivers you already have decided to buy, except the sub, using the purifi 8´ all the way down to 20 Hz in a closed box gonna give you more than enough bass quality if your room is a smaller one. You can then use the 3-way dsp- Hypex crossover for all 3 drivers.

There are some loudspeakers that have subwoofers on the side of the cabinets - Kef ls60 is one of them and Barefoot monitors is another. It looks cool, but… One can wonder if this is a good idea soundwise or is it mostly a compromise to make the cabinets baffle smaller ?

 

[jhaider]

The SB woofers you mention might be good , but we want some evidence that they really are as good as you think .

Erin measured them some time ago. I’m not convinced that open air compliance limits are terribly relevant when you stick a big driver in a tiny box.

Peerless xls 10 and 12 inch woofers can be found in many other subwoofer brands ( Sigberg , Amphion, legend acoustics, GRIMM and many more …)

Sigberg does not use XLS. Amphion actually uses the SB Acoustics woofer. Note the raised ring on the dust cap. Triad also transitioned their shallow and in wall subs from XLS10 to SB26.

Both XLS/XXLS and SB26 are very good drivers. SB26’s comparative advantages are an inch or so less depth, 3” voicecoil for better thermals, and neo motor.

I do agree about the Purifi 8 though. It’s a fine driver by all measures. However for a midbass with active cross to a dome or small cone I’d likely look to B&C 8BG51 or 8NDL51. More efficient, higher power handling.

 

[sloth_kwj]

My most important part of this design is low distortion and nice design. I thought using 8" instead of 6" will give lower IMD and extend internal volume for side woofer. Thanks for advices, I have to rethink about using 8".
Also I saw SB26, designed nice, but I can't find klippel measurements...

 

[sloth_kwj]

hat horrible breakup cant be tamed with other than a good dsp.

As I saw in Hificompass review, he said breakup made by hysteresis in voicecoil which is 15khz in M74b only could be tamed by passive notch filter. Is he wrong?

 

[Archmage]

https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-the-l26roy-10-subwoofer-from-seas - your planned Seas L26Roy is a good choice, IMO. It has just enough displacement to keep up with the Purifi 8 if you decide to stick with that design.

If you can swing a single 12" woofer:

https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-scan-speak-32w-4878t00-subwoofer - ~14mm Xmax, I'd consider this an upgrade over something like a 12" Dayton Reference (HF or HO, depending on enclosure size) or Peerless XXLS class of drivers.

HiFi Compass tested the lower ~7mm excursion variant: https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/scan-speak/scanspeak-32w/4878t01

You'll have to decide on enclosure size constraints to figure out what can fit. But I suppose that an enclosure that would let these 12's really breathe might be able to fit that dual-opposed L26ROY config anyway.

--
I like to think up hypothetical driver pairings for relatively high dynamic range systems (w/o resorting to a compression driver), and when the Purifi 8 was announced, I was pleased that it covered the range just below the Bliesma dome mid at a similar performance and output level - so I fully understand what you were going for. I'd guess this 3-way would provide a little higher output capability than the Purifi 6 + Bliesma 34mm on a matched waveguide, but then again, I'd probably pair the latter config with a dedicated 12, 15, or 18 midbass (maybe ~60-80Hz to 200-300Hz, maybe a 'Purifi 10' would be a good match) + additional dedicated vented subbass - this is just my preference, I don't like the idea of my midrange driver playing midbass frequencies - you mentioned minimizing IMD as a goal. However if you want your compact all-in-one enclosure with side-firing bass, then it makes sense for your lower midrange to be on the larger side (Purifi 8).

 

[voodooless]

https://audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-the-l26roy-10-subwoofer-from-seas - your planned Seas L26Roy is a good choice, IMO. It has just enough displacement to keep up with the Purifi 8 if you decide to stick with that design.

Just enough is probably not enough (if you actually intent to play loud). Note that most power will be in the bass:

So the sub will need about 5 to 10 dB more headroom than the rest. If you do room EQ, probably add another 6~10dB or so.

 

[bigjacko]

Wavecor makes very low distortion subs, they have one of the lowest distortion 8 inch sub. But there is not a lot of distributors. L26roy is already the best sub at 10 inch, it can rival 12 uch from other brands. All other 10 inch are just cheaper, not better.

 

[voodooless]

There is another option of course: just add another 8" Purifi and then make it a .5 way. It will yield about the same max SPL as a decent 10" on the side (like the Seas), but makes the enclosure much easier (just one chamber needed). It's also the most efficient solution > 35 Hz.
Here is 2x Purifi (red) vs 1x L26ROY (blue) MaxSPL:

Note that something like the 10" Dayton HE will only have an advantage below 40 Hz, and it's only 4dB at 20 Hz. Given that, you'll need to feed it loads of power because it's inefficient. If <40 Hz is a priority, that might make sense.

 

[gigi_boeru]

Just my opinion, 4 way speaker designs are difficult, you need proper measuring tools & knowledge.

 

[sloth_kwj]

I don't like the idea of mixing high excursion drivers with midrange frequencies

Exactly.

Purifi 10

Super YES

Just enough is probably not enough (if you actually intent to play loud). Note that most power will be in the bass:
View attachment 212314
So the sub will need about 5 to 10 dB more headroom than the rest. If you do room EQ, probably add another 6~10dB or so.

Can I ask what graph is this? Might be average crestfactor?

There is another option of course: just add another 8" Purifi and then make it a .5 way. It will yield about the same max SPL as a decent 10" on the side (like the Seas), but makes the enclosure much easier (just one chamber needed). It's also the most efficient solution > 35 Hz.
Here is 2x Purifi (red) vs 1x L26ROY (blue) MaxSPL:
View attachment 212316

Note that something like the 10" Dayton HE will only have an advantage below 40 Hz, and it's only 4dB at 20 Hz. Given that, you'll need to feed it loads of power because it's inefficient. If <40 Hz is a priority, that might make sense.

Thanks for new suggestion and simulations! I might not play over 86dbspl at most, 96dbspl for max target spl which use in measurements, +12db headroom is enough I think?(I don't know well)

 

[sloth_kwj]

Just my opinion, 4 way speaker designs are difficult, you need proper measuring tools & knowledge.

Obviously. Very challenging project. In measurement, it's not problem to me. I could get klippel measurements.

 

[Tangband]

As I saw in Hificompass review, he said breakup made by hysteresis in voicecoil which is 15khz in M74b only could be tamed by passive notch filter. Is he wrong?

The fact that you dont know that a notch filter also can be done in a dsp much easier and much better than going passive, shows that you need to read and learn a lot before you start to build. I dont want to stop your entusiasm, but dont buy superexpensive drivers if you dont have the tools to make it good.

 

[sloth_kwj]

The fact that you dont know that a notch filter also can be done in a dsp much easier and much better than going passive, shows that you need to read and learn a lot before you start to build. I dont want to stop your entusiasm, but dont buy superexpensive drivers if you dont have the tools to make it good.

Oh, 3,5rd harmonic distortion peak due to hysteresis peak in on axis could be tame by DSP? I didn't know that. As I study, making high impedance by passive series notch filter in that curve is only solution.