Best “audiophile”/flagship headphones for bass?

[EventHorizons]

What are the best flagship headphones in terms of (sub)bass?

I’ve spent a lot of time researching, but whenever I find a third party reviewer singing the praises of a pair of headphones nominally brilliant for their bass (eg Sony MDR Z1R) I find they’ve been torn asunder on this forum.

 

[Count Arthur]

Do you currently have any headphones and if so, what are they?

 

[EventHorizons]

Do you currently have any headphones and if so, what are they?

Yeah I have HD650, HD800s and (for my sins) a ZMF verite closed back.

 

[Count Arthur]

Have you tried EQ for more bass?

However, in general, open backs won't beat closed backs in the low bass frequencies.

 

[MRC01]

The cleanest (lowest distortion, and lowest extended response) bass I've ever heard in a headphone, and that Amir has ever measured, comes from certain well engineered planar magnetics. For example the LCD series from Audeze and from Dan Clark.

But when people ask for "best sub-bass" they are not always looking for clean. They are often looking for "slam" or exaggerated bass that is often distorted or sloppy sounding.

 

[kemmler3D]

I have Audeze LCD-XC and they don't need much EQ to have good sub-bass. In fact they have the cleanest bass I have heard from anything, down below 20hz even.

I once put on a 15hz test tone and turned it up. I didn't hear anything (such low distortion that no overtones became audible) but I did have a moment of panic where I thought the house was shaking in an earthquake. Apparently actual subsonic tones are alarming on a visceral level.

Case in point, really good sub-bass from these cans.

e: I can also confirm what @MRC01 is saying. The bass doesn't actually sound very loud even though it's slightly boosted - it's so clean that it feels a little further in the background compared to what you might be used to from speakers or other headphones. This is a good thing (IMO) but you are probably not used to what a truly pure 22hz sine wave sounds like.

 

[EventHorizons]

Have you tried EQ for more bass?

However, in general, open backs won't beat closed backs in the low bass frequencies.

Yeah I have the oratory1990 presets running on soundsource.

I was just wondering whether a planar headphone might be better for bass?

 

[MRC01]

I have Audeze LCD-XC and they don't need much EQ to have good sub-bass. In fact they have the cleanest bass I have heard from anything, down below 20hz even.

I once put on a 15hz test tone and turned it up. I didn't hear anything (such low distortion that no overtones became audible) but I did have a moment of panic where I thought the house was shaking in an earthquake. Apparently actual subsonic tones are alarming on a visceral level.

Case in point, really good sub-bass from these cans.

I agree, the entire LCD line (2, 3, X, etc.) has similar low distortion and deep bass extension. Many people can hear just a little below 20 Hz, but 15 Hz may be too far. I can hear down to about 17-18 Hz, which is not unusual. Not that there is any musical content to hear down there. But yeah, the LCD headphones will reproduce it and very cleanly. From what I read here, they have the lowest distortion Amir has ever measured in headphones.

Good dynamic headphones like the HD-600 and HD-800 can be comparably clean in the mids and treble, but they have increasing distortion in low frequencies. That said, the importance of low distortion in the bass is easily overstated, since our hearing isn't sensitive to distortion at those low frequencies. Our hearing is most sensitive to distortion in the mids & lower treble. However, when a single driver produces the entire frequency range, as it does with these heaphones, the mids & treble are little ripples riding on the much larger bass excursions of the driver, so bass distortion can pollute the mids and treble.

 

[EventHorizons]

The cleanest (lowest distortion, and lowest extended response) bass I've ever heard in a headphone, and that Amir has ever measured, comes from certain well engineered planar magnetics. For example the LCD series from Audeze and from Dan Clark.

But when people ask for "best sub-bass" they are not always looking for clean. They are often looking for "slam" or exaggerated bass that is often distorted or sloppy sounding.

Sorry! These posts came in while I was typing my reply. Would the Stealth be best for bass from the Dan Clark range? I’d heard that the LCD-5 were a little bass deficient, is that a misconception?

I’m definitely not looking for slam, distortion or slop. I have the XM5’s for that haha.

 

[kemmler3D]

Sorry! These posts came in while I was typing my reply. Would the Stealth be best for bass from the Dan Clark range? I’d heard that the LCD-5 were a little bass deficient, is that a misconception?

I’m definitely not looking for slam, distortion or slop. I have the XM5’s for that haha.

DC stealth has some (not a ton of) distortion in the bass, but also has more bass than the Audeze: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...alth-review-state-of-the-art-headphone.25920/ - probably a better choice for bassheads out of the box. The distortion is still way below most of the competition.

LCD-X has very little at any frequency (which is why I got them): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ze-lcd-xc-review-closed-back-headphone.31102/ - a fraction of even the DC Stealth at normal listening levels. If there is such a thing as bass that is too clean, this is it. But you do need EQ to get flat or boosted bass from them.

 

[MRC01]

Sorry! These posts came in while I was typing my reply. Would the Stealth be best for bass from the Dan Clark range? I’d heard that the LCD-5 were a little bass deficient, is that a misconception?

I’m definitely not looking for slam, distortion or slop. I have the XM5’s for that haha.

All of the LCD series have bass response that is below or attenuated compared to the Harman curve. However, their distortion is so low you can boost it as you like and it stays clean. Personally the Harman curve has too much bass for my taste (and too much treble), but this is highly subjective from one person to the next.

Dan Clark makes at least 2 headphones with excellent bass response: the Stealth and the Expanse. Their bass distortion is almost as low as the LCD heaphones.

 

[Count Arthur]

Something else to bear in mind, is that a lot of music doesn't have a great deal going on below 40-ish Hz.

I use one of Amir's EQ profiles with my Sennheisers:

On some tracks, that low shelf doesn't do much, because there isn't much going on that low down, to boost in the first place.

 

[EventHorizons]

Thanks so much for the responses everyone! It's looking like a shootout between the LCD-5 and the DCA Stealth. What is the trade off between "more bass" and distortion?

Something else to bear in mind, is that a lot of music doesn't have a great deal going on below 40-ish Hz.

I'm sure that's true of most genres, but this is the kind of stuff I'm listening to/have to mix on headphones for the next month haha. Edit: Although admittedly most of the action is going on between 40-70hz, although I always defined anything sub 70hz as subbass.

 

[Jimbob54]

What is the trade off between "more bass" and distortion?

For the 2 models you mentioned there is no trade off. You could EQ in as much bass as you want on either without audible distortion.

But the Stealth has a bass boost built in

 

[EventHorizons]

For the 2 models you mentioned there is no trade off. You could EQ in as much bass as you want on either without audible distortion.

But the Stealth has a bass boost built in

View attachment 438059

Ah sorry. Some of the other posts had suggested that there was a little more distortion on the Stealths than the LCDs and I was just trying to clarify the implications.

How should I decide between the LCD-5 and DCA Stealth, has anyone had experience with both?

 

[MRC01]

Ah sorry. Some of the other posts had suggested that there was a little more distortion on the Stealths than the LCDs and I was just trying to clarify the implications.
How should I decide between the LCD-5 and DCA Stealth, has anyone had experience with both?

For the best bass response, the greatest value / bang for your buck is the Audeze LCD-2 Fazor. It has the same bass response and low distortion as the other models in the LCD line.

As for the LCD vs Stealth, the Stealth has the advantage that its natural response closely follows the Harman curve. If that's your thing, it won't need EQ. The LCD sounds significantly different, quite dark and mid-focused without EQ. Sure you can EQ it to whatever you want and the low distortion ensures it won't harm the sound quality. But you might not always have EQ available or might prefer a headphone that you simply plug in and listen.

 

[EventHorizons]

For the best bass response, the greatest value / bang for your buck is the Audeze LCD-2 Fazor. It has the same bass response and low distortion as the other models in the LCD line.

And if I was looking for a sort of endgame headphone (as if there’s such a thing), which LCD would be the best?

Can see the advantages of not having to use eq as I do a lot of sound design with my headphones plugged directly into gear.

 

[MRC01]

And if I was looking for a sort of endgame headphone (as if there’s such a thing), which LCD would be the best?
Can see the advantages of not having to use eq as I do a lot of sound design with my headphones plugged directly into gear.

Subjective alert! Some reviews I've read say the LCD-2F treble can be grainy while LCD-4 and 5 are smoother/better, more like electrostats. The 4 and 5 do use thinner, lighter membranes. Whether and how that appears in measurements, I don't know. I can't offer an opinion on the 4 and 5 as I haven't listened to them.

Another advantage of the Dan Clarks is they are lighter and more comfortable; the LCD series are bulky and heavy. I find them comfortable to wear, but I do notice the weight after an hour or so.

 

[EventHorizons]

Subjective alert! Some reviews I've read say the LCD-2F treble can be grainy while LCD-4 and 5 are smoother/better, more like electrostats. The 4 and 5 do use thinner, lighter membranes. Whether and how that appears in measurements, I don't know. I can't offer an opinion on the 4 and 5 as I haven't listened to them.

Another advantage of the Dan Clarks is they are lighter and more comfortable; the LCD series are bulky and heavy. I find them comfortable to wear, but I do notice the weight after an hour or so.

Ah weight is such a huge factor for those marathon listening sessions, thanks so much for your help. I'll try to track down a shop that has them and do an A/B between the LCD-5's and the DCA stealth.

 

[poopy]

It has been reported multiple times on this forum that DCA phones were sensitive to seal. Much less an issue with Audeze. If you were glasses, Audeze is a better option.

Bu the way LCD-5s are the lightest phones from Audeze with a weight < 450g.