Benefits of using expensive DACs

[Holmz]

Of course I've already looked them up but I'd like to know what you're saying. You seem to be saying now that you bought the RME because of better customer service and a better warranty and that contradicts what you said "Other people may want other things from a DAC, that are not measurable audible metrics… like status, heft, features, etc.".

I am saying:

1) After the rotten Topping amp, I would never buy anything Topping again.
2) I also wanted an ADC, so that eliminated a lot of DACS.
3) I also wanted something that was not so light that it slid across the table when I press a button.

Others may want “a status symbol,” or “Audio Jewellery” and get 5 of 6 digit DACs.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

The only conceivable benefit of an expensive DAC, AFIAC, is to use it as a piece of sculpture like, for example, this:

View attachment 399905


If you want something like this, and are willing to pay $50,000 USD to look at it every time you play a Celine Dion record, then go make yourself happy. We won't judge. Of course it won't sound any better than a $40 DAC, but you should already know that, so do what thou wilt.

"Go beyond the perfection!"

 

[Snarfie]

Still i love my Topping D10 first release display lighting up with the played khz.
It is not only usefull information but it brings a smile on my face an that for at the time only 78,- euro still a great sound running now around 6 years reliable Priceless

 

[VientoB]

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Still i love my Topping D10 first release display lighting up with the played khz.
It is not only usefull information but it brings a smile on my face an that for at the time only 78,- euro still a great sound running now around 6 years reliable Priceless

View attachment 402776

Looks cool and I like the display colour.

 

[oleg87]

Find a superior DAC and talk to the engineers who designed it. They would be able to tell you what engineering was performed to make it sound better.

I'm glad when people don't even pretend to know what they're talking about.

 

[akamatsu]

I'm glad when people don't even pretend to know what they're talking about.

Isn't that the truth. So many pretend to know about the technical workings of audio. Good kit is designed by good engineers. I'm a mechanical engineer, so I know my limits. I'm not qualified to talk knowingly about electrical engineering.

 

[dshreter]

Hi, can you help me out please? I've asked this before and haven't had a clear answer. Are you saying that the RME is audibly better than any Topping? If so, is that because of the higher gain?

RME DACs of course have DAC functionality but they also have DSP capabilities. The utility and value of these features needs to be considered separately from just the DAC and output stage, which sound identical to a $30 dongle.

 

[HammersRocco]

Lucky you. Unfortunately I have to spend much more than that to be satisfied. Been doing hifi for a long time and my system has become better and better over the decades. It's also become more and more expensive. I recall in my younger, poorer days being perfectly happy with a much more modest system.

I think the OP asks about spending more and getting a better DAC. Yes, one could do this, but more expensive doesn't necessarily translate to better sounding. Some kit is worth the additional cost, but a lot of it isn't. In some cases, it could be worse.

"satisfied" is different for everyone! Unfortunately for many it means looking for the "better sounding" personal impression. But DACs proper are not DSPs or equalizers. Sure there might be some devices out there that include that, for mostly pro-audio purposes, I assume. We sometimes obviously call those devices "DACs" for practical purposes. But technically that is a separate function. What I mean, what you should get from additional cost is better build, better reliability, longer operation life, no failures and features that you care about.

(the idea that the analog section of a DAC matters too much could be encapsulated in that - sure, a more expensive DAC might include a better built analog section - but again, diminishing returns start very low in the price scale. WAY LOWER than audiophiles think)


"Better sound"? too nebulous, subjective to even consider or, yes, care about.

 

[HammersRocco]

RME DACs of course have DAC functionality but they also have DSP capabilities. The utility and value of these features needs to be considered separately from just the DAC and output stage, which sound identical to a $30 dongle.

AH - thanks! - same point I tried to make in my previous post, but this is more succinct. That said, also gotta say that it was a surprise to all of sudden hear the name RME mentioned in this space (consumer audio). I was aware of RME back when I had my little home studio (for personal amusement only, not really a musician or a "producer" ) so it makes sense that it has DSP features - without searching, I assume it has an ADC stage, given it is well.. an RME "audio interface" (as they are called in pro-audio given that for that purpose those devices are both DACs and ADCs)

 

[akamatsu]

"satisfied" is different for everyone! Unfortunately for many it means looking for the "better sounding" personal impression. But DACs proper are not DSPs or equalizers. Sure there might be some devices out there that include that, for mostly pro-audio purpose, I assume. We obviously call those devices "DACs" for practical purpose. But technically that is a separate function. What I mean, what you should get from additional cost is better build, better reliability, longer operation life, no failure and feature that you care about.

(the idea that the analog section of a DAC matters too much could be encapsulated in that - sure, a more expensive DAC might include a better built analog section - but again, diminishing returns are very log in the price scale. WAY LOWER than audiophiles think)


"Better sound"? to nebulous, subjective to even consider or, yes, care about.

Yes. Being satisfied with one's system really is different for everyone. I think a lot of it depends on what we are used to hearing. Along the same lines, and referring back to the OP, if one DAC sounds better than another, and it costs more, the customer could decide whether or not the improvement is worth the additional cost. This is a personal decision.

 

[Purité Audio]

The first step is to determine if there really is an audible difference between the two, so level matched/unsighted comparison.
Keith

 

[Holmz]

I've never been interested in status, it's function only for me and I think if you engage with other people the vast majority of people will agree with me. I like to engage with people.

The vast majority here… on ASR?, or people in general?
When we hang out with the same crowd, it is not unreasonable for the group-think to be the same.
Go Onya if you value performance, but there are many things that go into making a purchase.

And also some people (used to) use stereos to convey status.
And big expensive DACs do that, so if that is a goal, then those DACs have customers.
(There is nothing right or wrong about it, it is just a factual preference for some.)

… 3) my RME ADI-2 FS DAC slides when I press the buttons just like my Topping did, do you have the RME ADI-2 FS Pro DAC?

The Pro.
But I assume that some devices are really light, at least compared to the big DACs inside a billet of aluminium.
I also never had the Topping, and I would not likely have it now.
Sure… it is a forum-boner, But, just not for me.

And then the PEQ stuff is also available, which may be used or not… but it is there.

 

[Brian Hall]

I do know of at least one example. But you would have to listen to the kit to hear the difference. I don't think you are going to do that, so the discussion becomes rather moot. I could say that DAC A sounds better than DAC B. Would you be willing to except that assertion for the sake of furthering the discussion?

They all sound the same if you don't know which one is being used.

 

[akamatsu]

They all sound the same if you don't know which one is being used.

Are you saying that all DACs sound the same? All of them?

 

[Purité Audio]

Really poorly designed ones that add audible distortion might sound different.
Keith

 

[Brian Hall]

Are you saying that all DACs sound the same? All of them?

Any well functioning dac which is doing what a dac is supposed to do will sound the same as any other well functioning dac.

If something sounds different then one is either screwing up the output and not accurately converting the bits to analog so would fail the above statement

OR you have intentionally used built in EQ to adjust the sound.

 

[krabapple]

It's hard to quantify but I know my Denafrips Pontus Ii sounds better than my Topping D90.

And off we go

 

[akamatsu]

Any well functioning dac which is doing what a dac is supposed to do will sound the same as any other well functioning dac.

If something sounds different then one is either screwing up the output and not accurately converting the bits to analog so would fail the above statement

OR you have intentionally used built in EQ to adjust the sound.

So as long as it's functioning as it should, that is, not broken, then they all sound the same?

 

[Brian Hall]

So as long as it's functioning as it should, that is, not broken, then they all sound the same?

Yes, they should. A dac is supposedly to accurately convert the bits to analog. A $10 dongle dac is capable of doing that. No magic. No rocket science.

Above $10, you are paying for the features, inputs and outputs you need.

 

[akamatsu]

Yes, they should. A dac is supposedly to accurately convert the bits to analog. A $10 dongle dac is capable of doing that. No magic. No rocket science.

Above $10, you are paying for the features, inputs and outputs you need.

Thank you.