Benchmark DAC 3 or Topping D90

[whill]

Hi!

Currently I am in search for a DAC which is unfortunately I am in no way to demo it with my system that is why I am delving into to of the DACs as mentioned above.

However, I am quite in a dilemma here because of the following:

Benchmark DAC 3 - pricey although not as good in terms of measurement compared to D90, it gives (somewhat) sense of validity coming from a reputable brand and also can be considered as "audiophile gear jewelry" for the lack of better term.

Topping D90 - great measurements but it is quite cheap compared to other DAC, don't get me wrong but something inside me tells me that somewhere in the middle they have to cut the cost and the problem is I do not know where. Could be the quality of parts, display, plugs etc..

Please educate me if I am missing here or something and I know I have this "more expensive, the better" mentality and would want to correct it one way or another.

I am currently using Huawei Tab (UAPP) > Rotel RDD 1580 / NAD D1050 > Auralic Taurus MKII > Beyerdynamic T1 2nd Gen

Most of the time I am streaming Tidal Hifi.

Thank you for your inputs.

Whill

 

[JohnYang1997]

Hi!

Currently I am in search for a DAC which is unfortunately I am in no way to demo it with my system that is why I am delving into to of the DACs as mentioned above.

However, I am quite in a dilemma here because of the following:

Benchmark DAC 3 - pricey although not as good in terms of measurement compared to D90, it gives (somewhat) sense of validity coming from a reputable brand and also can be considered as "audiophile gear jewelry" for the lack of better term.

Topping D90 - great measurements but it is quite cheap compared to other DAC, don't get me wrong but something inside me tells me that somewhere in the middle they have to cut the cost and the problem is I do not know where. Could be the quality of parts, display, plugs etc..

Please educate me if I am missing here or something and I know I have this "more expensive, the better" mentality and would want to correct it one way or another.

I am currently using Huawei Tab (UAPP) > Rotel RDD 1580 / NAD D1050 > Auralic Taurus MKII > Beyerdynamic T1 2nd Gen

Most of the time I am streaming Tidal Hifi.

Thank you for your inputs.

Whill

Well. The components are probably more expensive in the D90. 4499 is really expensive chip. How they achieve such cheap retail price(not that cheap in my book actually) is asking for the volume than the margin. They sell thousands and thousands of units a year. D90 is by far their most expensive model yet it's much cheaper than products making in US. There are certain benefits in China, the chassis can be done much more beautifully yet cheaper. Power supply can be easily customized for the need (dimension and power) for cheap (yet good quality). The labour is of course more expensive in the US. Also the company model. A lot of these factors making the price difference between such products. At the end of the day. It's about the objective measurable performance in my opinion. Of course for companies like topping designing multiple products a year may not have the time to refine their design to the extreme degree like Benchmark which only have a handful of current products. If you concern about quality, you may wait a bit and see what people say about the D90. Do they encounter issues. Do they like it.

Onto the recommendation, I personally only see that DAC3 has higher output voltage selection to pair with their other products. D90 will definitely be my choice. Apart from d90, I also like Element X a lot the volume control on it is superb and performance in some way is better than d90 in real world use. Hope you get the product you like. Cheers.

 

[Blur]

D90. Cheaper, easy to install, tons of connectivity, and can run both XLR and RCA out at the same time. I love mine and really enjoy knowing it measures well. I've had no issues with it either!

 

[Svperstar]

D90. Cheaper, easy to install, tons of connectivity, and can run both XLR and RCA out at the same time. I love mine and really enjoy knowing it measures well. I've had no issues with it either!

Was the RCA ever measured?

 

[Crazy_Nate]

I'd also throw some Matrix Audio DAC options (element M/I, maybe X, but more expensive) into the mix for consideration if you're looking in this sort of price range. Probably also look at Mytek and RME.

If cost is a factor for you, I'd probably just buy the D90 and be happy with it. It is an impressive amount of performance for not a whole lot of money. I think it sounds fantastic. Probably beyond this price you're paying for more features that you may or may not use.

Interestingly the Benchmark DAC3B has a coax input that can be switched to an output (no processing, just passthrough), so if your equipment downstream has multiple XLR inputs, then you can A/B compare DACs.

I ended up going with the DAC3B to pair nicely with the HPA-4 / AHB2. There are a few other premium features that aren't well advertised, like extra digital headroom for both the oversampling interpolator and the DAC chip itself, plus a 5 year warranty (and the ability for Benchmark to factory service their hardware outside of warranty). Benchmark also does a 30-day trial for US customers and factory direct purchasing. Just don't rack mount it or otherwise mark it up (15% restocking fee applies if it isn't basically like new when they get it back).

 

[UCrazyKid]

It's not that the D90 is made cheaper or that costs were cut, its that the markup on the Benchmark (and other high end gear) is absolutely ridiculous!

 

[GeorgeWalk]

I have the D90 (as well as the 50s) I love them both. The D90 is an awesome piece of gear. For me, it is an endgame product. I can't see that I would ever trade it; I can't imagine anything would preform better (that I would be able to hear). It also one of the most expensive pieces of gear I own and I think it is inexpensive for the performance and quality.

 

[Tks]

I'd also throw some Matrix Audio DAC options (element M/I, maybe X, but more expensive) into the mix for consideration if you're looking in this sort of price range. Probably also look at Mytek and RME.

If cost is a factor for you, I'd probably just buy the D90 and be happy with it. It is an impressive amount of performance for not a whole lot of money. I think it sounds fantastic. Probably beyond this price you're paying for more features that you may or may not use.

Interestingly the Benchmark DAC3B has a coax input that can be switched to an output (no processing, just passthrough), so if your equipment downstream has multiple XLR inputs, then you can A/B compare DACs.

I ended up going with the DAC3B to pair nicely with the HPA-4 / AHB2. There are a few other premium features that aren't well advertised, like extra digital headroom for both the oversampling interpolator and the DAC chip itself, plus a 5 year warranty (and the ability for Benchmark to factory service their hardware outside of warranty). Benchmark also does a 30-day trial for US customers and factory direct purchasing. Just don't rack mount it or otherwise mark it up (15% restocking fee applies if it isn't basically like new when they get it back).

Well said, except not Mytek, they haven't proven to be competitive in any sort of realm to be frank..

 

[suttondesign]

It's not that the D90 is made cheaper or that costs were cut, its that the markup on the Benchmark (and other high end gear) is absolutely ridiculous!

I don't agree. Benchmark does not have the luxury of not being in a competitive market -- far from it. It is a small, niche company. Its pricing reflects a high-quality, US-made product made in a place with US rents, labor costs, taxes, and all the rest of it. The fact that someone does not wish to pay the amount Benchmark products cost does not make the pricing wrong, unfair, or "ridiculous." Benchmark is entitled to earn a profit, and surely they price their products so as to sell as many as they can while still making a fair return. The fact that a Topping is so much less tells me that Benchmark must be doing something special if they can command higher prices for similar goods.

 

[cjm2077]

I don't agree. Benchmark does not have the luxury of not being in a competitive market -- far from it. It is a small, niche company. Its pricing reflects a high-quality, US-made product made in a place with US rents, labor costs, taxes, and all the rest of it. The fact that someone does not wish to pay the amount Benchmark products cost does not make the pricing wrong, unfair, or "ridiculous." Benchmark is entitled to earn a profit, and surely they price their products so as to sell as many as they can while still making a fair return. The fact that a Topping is so much less tells me that Benchmark must be doing something special if they can command higher prices for similar goods.

Benchmark also targets the studio market instead of the home market. That means different types of connections (compared to most consumer gear), high quality headphone amps built into the DAC for monitoring, rackmount availability, higher servicability expectations, higher reliability targets, higher environmental testing limits, and most likely more extensive standards testing (UL, CE, etc). It's meant to do things that a home DAC isn't (and shouldn't) be expected to do. They're built to a different level that is probably overkill for a home use product. I'm not saying that all home audio market products will be unreliable in a home environment and are crap (although we know some are, but the same could probably be said for bad studio equipment), but rather that they probably wouldn't do well standing up to the abuse a pro studio often dishes out. It's a different market with different needs.

 

[Panelhead]

And studio gear has less margin than high end. The pro market is all about volume. The Dac3 competes against RME, Lynx, and other premium lines.
I am biased toward AKM chips. The D90 for me.

 

[RayDunzl]

Benchmark also targets the studio market instead of the home market.

Well, except for the ADCs listed, all the current products are suitable for hifi High Fi. DAC, Headphone Amp, Line Amp, and speaker amp. Looks like they've moved out of the studio.



A little history...

"Benchmark began in 1983 as the "Benchmark Sound Company", a small operation working out of a garage in Garland, Texas.

Our founder, Allen H. Burdick, began by building very high-performance audio equipment to meet the specialized needs of television broadcast facilities. The company quickly grew, and was incorporated as Benchmark Media Systems, March 5, 1985. Benchmark expanded into additional audio markets, and relocated to Allen's home town, Syracuse, NY. To this day, all Benchmark products are designed, assembled and tested in our Syracuse facility."



Probably, the success of the DAC1 (for studio use) as it crossed over into Home Use, determined the current direction of the company.

Manual (as early as 2002):

"The DAC1 is a reference-quality, 2-channel 192-kHz 24-bit audio digital-to-analog converter featuring Benchmark’s UltraLock™ technology. The DAC1 is designed for maximum transparency and is well suited for critical playback in studio control rooms and in mastering rooms. A compact and rugged enclosure makes the DAC1 an excellent choice for location recording, broadcast facilities, and mobile trucks. The internal power supply supports all international voltages and has generous margins for over and under voltage conditions. "




If curious, some (or all) past product manuals can be accessed here:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/pages/manuals

Current things on the first page, current and legacy stuff alphabetized.

 

[Nicolaas]

Hi!

Currently I am in search for a DAC which is unfortunately I am in no way to demo it with my system that is why I am delving into to of the DACs as mentioned above.

However, I am quite in a dilemma here because of the following:

Benchmark DAC 3 - pricey although not as good in terms of measurement compared to D90, it gives (somewhat) sense of validity coming from a reputable brand and also can be considered as "audiophile gear jewelry" for the lack of better term.

Topping D90 - great measurements but it is quite cheap compared to other DAC, don't get me wrong but something inside me tells me that somewhere in the middle they have to cut the cost and the problem is I do not know where. Could be the quality of parts, display, plugs etc..

Please educate me if I am missing here or something and I know I have this "more expensive, the better" mentality and would want to correct it one way or another.

I am currently using Huawei Tab (UAPP) > Rotel RDD 1580 / NAD D1050 > Auralic Taurus MKII > Beyerdynamic T1 2nd Gen

Most of the time I am streaming Tidal Hifi.

Thank you for your inputs.

Whill

I received my D90 this week. The look and feel and sound quality is pretty high-end to me. And with the 10% discount I payed Eur 576,- at the Aoshida shop...

 

[mocenigo]

I received my D90 this week. The look and feel and sound quality is pretty high-end to me. And with the 10% discount I payed Eur 576,- at the Aoshida shop...

576 eur before customs? Shipped from where to where? Where did you order it?

 

[Nicolaas]

576 eur before customs? Shipped from where to where? Where did you order it?

Ordered in January at Aoshida shop. Shipped from China to the Netherlands via Singapore Speedpost. Customs VAT and handling in NL at a total of Eur 46,- .So the total price was Eur 622,-

 

[Tks]

I don't agree. Benchmark does not have the luxury of not being in a competitive market -- far from it. It is a small, niche company. Its pricing reflects a high-quality, US-made product made in a place with US rents, labor costs, taxes, and all the rest of it. The fact that someone does not wish to pay the amount Benchmark products cost does not make the pricing wrong, unfair, or "ridiculous." Benchmark is entitled to earn a profit, and surely they price their products so as to sell as many as they can while still making a fair return. The fact that a Topping is so much less tells me that Benchmark must be doing something special if they can command higher prices for similar goods.

From New York no less. I'm surprised they don't charge more since they bring the pedigree of origin (a desirable "Made In" location) and the fact they actually walk the talk (their devices are only denounced by either the deaf or pure lunatics if performance is the metric of discussion).

Though if I was to nitpick Benchmark a bit... I do think it's time they started a refresh of some of their products at least aesthetically and perhaps up the performance even further in some way (either through efficiency, or offering slight improvements in numerous possible categories). I say this not as a need, but as pure curiosity to see what top tier companies like them, are capable of seeing as how some of their products are a few years old now.

I'd like to see what they could do if they try going after RME for example (of which no company seems to care to compete with even to the present day with their ADI-2 DAC's ridiculously numerous feature-set).

We're reaching fidelity levels these days that are seemingly at the limits of what can reasonably be expected without some physics defying and cost prohibited improvements. So I'll say what I said a year ago... It's time for companies to start focusing on features (as performance should be the baseline standard that should be a given seeing as how $100 products are capable of top tier performance these days). Give us built-in DSP, give us thing like perhaps more inputs or connections (I'm looking at all of you companies being surpassed by Topping that is including Bluetooth on virtually all their DACs), lets get more streamers, lets get more creature comforts like analyzers, better remotes and options, PEQ bands in the double digits, and perhaps more ADC parts to support something like microphone input perhaps (that last one is a bit of a stretch, but if RME can do it with their Pro line, it's just odd to see very few even attempting it, while bringing the great performance that RME does).

Chop chop companies!

 

[cjm2077]

Well, except for the ADCs listed, all the current products are suitable for hifi High Fi. DAC, Headphone Amp, Line Amp, and speaker amp. Looks like they've moved out of the studio.



A little history...

"Benchmark began in 1983 as the "Benchmark Sound Company", a small operation working out of a garage in Garland, Texas.

Our founder, Allen H. Burdick, began by building very high-performance audio equipment to meet the specialized needs of television broadcast facilities. The company quickly grew, and was incorporated as Benchmark Media Systems, March 5, 1985. Benchmark expanded into additional audio markets, and relocated to Allen's home town, Syracuse, NY. To this day, all Benchmark products are designed, assembled and tested in our Syracuse facility."



Probably, the success of the DAC1 (for studio use) as it crossed over into Home Use, determined the current direction of the company.

Manual (as early as 2002):

"The DAC1 is a reference-quality, 2-channel 192-kHz 24-bit audio digital-to-analog converter featuring Benchmark’s UltraLock™ technology. The DAC1 is designed for maximum transparency and is well suited for critical playback in studio control rooms and in mastering rooms. A compact and rugged enclosure makes the DAC1 an excellent choice for location recording, broadcast facilities, and mobile trucks. The internal power supply supports all international voltages and has generous margins for over and under voltage conditions. "




If curious, some (or all) past product manuals can be accessed here:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/pages/manuals

Current things on the first page, current and legacy stuff alphabetized.

View attachment 51205

They certainly have. And they're great for home use. Wasn't discouraging anyone from buying them for that purpose. I have myself. But their products are still made to a studio level of standard, because they're still expected to be used in that environment on a regular basis. It's like Rolex making Submariner watches. They know most will be used as fashion accessories. But they still have to make them solid performing dive watches, because they know some will actually be used for that. The topping and Benchmark DAC are both transparent and should be equally good for home use if they have the features/connections you want. If you really wanted the analog pre-amp functions or the extra digital inputs, or a built-in headphone amp, then maybe the Dac 3 HGC is worth the extra money. But it is a lot extra. They should also be pretty close in reliability in a home setting where they're not going to get banged around a lot or stuck in a hot rack environment.

 

[Billy Budapest]

It's not that the D90 is made cheaper or that costs were cut, its that the markup on the Benchmark (and other high end gear) is absolutely ridiculous!

When I spoke to Benchmark ten years ago about becoming a dealer, they warned me that margins for their products are low. So, the markup is not high.

I also was exposed to the markup on Oppo gear and it, too, was very low.

Finally, I have seen price lists for Conrad-Johnson gear and surprisingly the markup is much, much lower than the 5x-10x multiplier common for much boutique audio gear.

 

[suttondesign]

i confirm as a dealer that benchmark makes it hard for me to deal. not really sure why they bother at all, actually. sigh. but you can be assured that their margins arent that high.

 

[gvl]

I would go with Benchmark if I had such a dilemma.