Benchmark AHB2 vs Quad artera vs hypex class d

[Pjetrof]

Perhaps, but at this point you and others are making assumptions. Get the exact model of the capacitors used and look for information about their reliability. Seriously, really over-reacting to one person telling you something is bad. It might be, but you need to do more homework.

You are right
but it was not my plan to use this amplifier.
its because of this site I bought this one and compared to my accuphase
and to be honest the behringer plays better louder on low volume it’s no comparison

 

[carlob]

I don't understand what's your problem. Are you happy with the Behringer? Good.

 

[Pjetrof]

I don't understand what's your problem. Are you happy with the Behringer? Good.

@carlob
no problems, the day audio cause me problems I stop this beautiful hobby.
this is a forum, so I think it’s not a problem to ask questions have discussions without having problems!

 

[Pjetrof]

Reading the answers and questions from other members I want to stop this discussion I feel lots got lost in translation my apologies English is not my native and best language.I want togo back to the first question.
benchmark vs quad vs hypex.

 

[RichB]

@RichB
would 1 benchmark be enough to drive Harbeth 30.2
2. 5 meters seating distance.
singer songwriter music
normal volume
for example the behringer lights never come on.
but the Accuphase e650 meters wherealways touching the red zone

They look like a relatively benign load:
https://www.stereophile.com/content...-anniversary-edition-loudspeaker-measurements

I am using the AHB2 bi-amp'ed not bridged to drive the Salons.
My measurements and estimates show that I am using about 64 watts to achieve 101 dB driving the Salon2s which are really less efficient because they are mostly a 4 Ohm load. The AHB2 clip indicators illuminate when .5% distortion is detected.

Watching movies overly loud (IMO) they do not clip.
Listening to music I have to try to get them to clip and when I do, I am well past the point of complaints from family members.

- Rich

 

[Pjetrof]

They look like a relatively benign load:
https://www.stereophile.com/content...-anniversary-edition-loudspeaker-measurements

I am using the AHB2 bi-amp'ed not bridged to drive the Salons.
My measurements and estimates show that I am using about 64 watts to achieve 101 dB driving the Salon2s which are really less efficient because they are mostly a 4 Ohm load. The AHB2 clip indicators illuminate when .5% distortion is detected.

Watching movies overly loud (IMO) they do not clip.
Listening to music I have to try to get them to clip and when I do, I am well past the point of complaints from family members.

- Rich

Thx

 

[DonH56]

it's all over the internet

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28449

View attachment 69710

I was thinking of the overall bias against using an amplifier that is apparently working well and doing its job. I am not a fan of Behringer myself but the idea that "it's cheap, so not good enough for our speakers, don't use it or you will void the warranty, buy something better" is high-handed and deceptive to me. There are many Behringer amplifiers in use and plenty of folk seem quite happy with them. Someone (not you) looking down their nose at someone for not spending more just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Pjetrof]

I was thinking of the overall bias against using an amplifier that is apparently working well and doing its job. I am not a fan of Behringer myself but the idea that "it's cheap, so not good enough for our speakers, don't use it or you will void the warranty, buy something better" is high-handed and deceptive to me. There are many Behringer amplifiers in use and plenty of folk seem quite happy with them. Looking down your nose at someone for not spending more just doesn't sit well with me.

that is basically want I was trying to say!

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I was thinking of the overall bias against using an amplifier that is apparently working well and doing its job. I am not a fan of Behringer myself but the idea that "it's cheap, so not good enough for our speakers, don't use it or you will void the warranty, buy something better" is high-handed and deceptive to me. There are many Behringer amplifiers in use and plenty of folk seem quite happy with them. Someone (not you) looking down their nose at someone for not spending more just doesn't sit well with me.

Is it the price or poor reliability? Maybe... Would we insure you if you by bad tires?

 

[carlob]

don't use it or you will void the warranty

that's the whole point: AS didn't say that. Maybe it's a subtle difference but he said if it fails and damage your speakers you are on your own, assuming that cheap stuff is more likely to fail than better stuff. I think is reasonable.

Btw these amps are not exactly known for their reliability over the years, what I know is that Behringer has a good customer support and exchanges them no question asked but the fail rate, from what I read around, is fairly high. If they can fail and damage your speakers is another matter, I don't know what kind of protection they have.

 

[carlob]

EDIT: I found the IRS20957S application note and seems that protection control is implemented in the IC: https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/an-1144.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a40153559a256f10e3

 

[tmtomh]

If you have the money, the Benchmark is fantastic and it's hard to argue against it.

The one thing I would note is that bridging it to mono and using two of them doesn't just get you more power - it gets you more gain, which is critical especially if you don't have a preamp. The highest gain setting is I believe 23dB on the Benchmark in stereo mode, but 29dB in mono bridged mode. The Harbeths are rated at 85dB efficiency. If you were using a single Benchmark amp, and going straight into it with a 2V/4V line-level source with no preamp, you might have some trouble achieving louder volumes in a listening space as large as yours.

With a preamp, though, it would be a non-issue. Again, if you have the money go for it - but personally I would question the need for using two Benchmarks bridged to mono if you have an active preamp in your chain.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

@Willem @Aerith Gainsborough
I know what mr Shaw said.
He said a amplifier of 179 euro got more chance to break down

You do realize that is a pretty low probability scenario, right?

I know plenty of people that use friggin AVRs (the budget end of the budget end in terms of "component quality") for decades w/o major hiccups.
Personally, I would not base my purchase decisions around whether some component might fail or not fail and I most certainly would not spend 4K€ if (to my ears and power needs) a 200€ device did the same job.

BTW: I use an AVR too. It cost 230€. How much of that budget went into the amplification? Certainly less compared to your Behringer. I bought the device in 2014. It has worked for 6 years now.

YMMV of course, some people just have money to burn or their psyche won't shut up until they have achieved TOTL/SOTA equipment status.

 

[Pjetrof]

that's the whole point: AS didn't say that. Maybe it's a subtle difference but he said if it fails and damage your speakers you are on your own, assuming that cheap stuff is more likely to fail than better stuff. I think is reasonable.

Btw these amps are not exactly known for their reliability over the years, what I know is that Behringer has a good customer support and exchanges them no question asked but the fail rate, from what I read around, is fairly high. If they can fail and damage your speakers is another matter, I don't know what kind of protection they have.

again I had a privat conversation with him!
he maid the point that it was the price, if it is that cheap it can’t be good ! His words.

Is it the price or poor reliability? Maybe... Would we insure you if you by bad tires?

again this are not bad tyres it’s tested here and this was the outcome

Conclusions
The Behringer A800 does what pro amps try to do: provide solid, middle-of-the-road distortion and noise with tons of power in quiet and light package for little money. The design is stable and better than the A500. As such, I can recommend the A800 as an everyday amplifier.

if it was tested and said it is not a solid amp with crappy components I wouldn’t t buy it.

i will not accept that because something is cheap you have to know it’s crap

 

[Pjetrof]

You do realize that is a pretty low probability scenario, right?

I know plenty of people that use friggin AVRs (the budget end of the budget end in terms of "component quality") for decades w/o major hiccups.
Personally, I would not base my purchase decisions around whether some component might fail or not fail and I most certainly would not spend 4K€ if (to my ears and power needs) a 200€ device did the same job.

YMMV of course, some people just have money to burn or their psyche won't shut up until they have achieved TOTL/SOTA equipment status.

glad that you replied this way I m thinking the same!

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

again I had a privat conversation with him!
he maid the point that it was the price, if it is that cheap it can’t be good ! His words.


again this are not bad tyres it’s tested here and this was the outcome

Conclusions
The Behringer A800 does what pro amps try to do: provide solid, middle-of-the-road distortion and noise with tons of power in quiet and light package for little money. The design is stable and better than the A500. As such, I can recommend the A800 as an everyday amplifier.

if it was tested and said it is not a solid amp with crappy components I wouldn’t t buy it.

i will not accept that because something is cheap you have to know it’s crap

I’m not even saying not to buy it. They do have a bad reputation though and if the manufacturer says they would not want to warranty speakers if the amp blows up and takes out the speakers I can understand that. Although.. that might not be legal if you challenge them. I’m not getting into price either, would not matter to me if the thing was one dollar or $1 million. Ymmv

 

[John_Siau]

Incorrect.
An AHB2 can also fail or be overdriven, leading to the same signs on the drivers.

This is actually incorrect. The AHB2 has a THD monitoring circuit that shuts the amplifier down if you overdrive it beyond 1 % THD. THD+N is < 0.0003 % at full output, but if you drive it into clipping, you can reach 1 % and this will trigger the shutdown. The speed of this shutdown is also adjusted according to the severity of the overload. The result is that the tweeters are fully protected from an over-driven AHB2.

Also:

One of the most common failures in an amplifier output stage is a short to one of the power rails. This type of failure will take out a speaker. The AHB2 has a DC detection circuit that will shut down the entire amplifier including the power supplies. A failed AHB2 would not damage speakers.

Best of all, the AHB2 has proven to be absolutely bullet proof in the field.

 

[John_Siau]

If you have the choice, which would you choose and why?
Price not in consideration.
Speakers are Harbeth 30.2
Room is 40 square meters.
Open plan rectangular 10 by 4 meters living-room, dining-room and kitchen.
Speakers on long wall In living-room.
2.5 meters to seating position.
2 meters apart.
Music singer songwriter.
Source only Tidal.
thx in advance for the recommendation.

2 questions
Will one amplifier be enough?
Second question.
Maybe you have been reading the tread benchmark vs quad vs hypex.
If not in summary.
In a conversation with mister Alan Shaw, he stated that if I blow up my speaker caused by The amplifier I loose warranty.

Nice speakers!

The Harbeth 30.2 has a sensitivity of 87 dB at 2.828Vrms.

The maximum sinusoidal output of the AHB2 is 28.28 Vrms. This is exactly 20 dB higher than 2.828 Vrms. It is 100 W into 8 Ohms.

The maximum output of the AHB2 in bridged mono is 56 Vrms which is 26 dB higher than 2.828 Vrms. The AHB2 delivers 380 W at 0.0003% THD into 8 Ohms which is almost a 4x increase in power. 1% THD is over 400W.

This means that you can play 6 dB louder in bridged mono with the AHB2 and you will have almost exactly 4 x the power available to drive your speakers.

Let's do the math:

In stereo mode, the AHB2 will drive each speakers to a peak SPL of 87 + 20 = 107 dB SPL at full power at 1 m in an anechoic space.

With two AHB2 amplifiers, the power into each speaker will be almost exactly 4 times as high, and the peak SPL will be almost exactly 6 dB higher. 107 +6 = 113 dB SPL at full power at 1 m in an anechoic space.

As a general rule of thumb, the 1 m anechoic SPL will be close to the SPL that you will experience in your living room when listening to a pair at a normal listening distance. You are further away than 1 m, but listening to two speakers in a partially reflective room. I have found this rule of thumb gives reasonable results.

The crest factor of the music will reduce the average SPL to something that is 12 to 18 dB lower than the maximum sinusoidal level.

Given a crest factor of 8 (moderate mastering), the average level will be 18 dB - 3 dB = 15 dB lower than the maximum sinusoidal level. 107 - 15 = 92 dB SPL (average) for stereo and 113 - 15 = 98 dB SPL (average) for mono. The music power will be ((10^(-15 dB/20))^2)*100 W = 3.16 W stereo and 12.6 W mono.

Given a crest factor of 6 (more aggressive mastering), the average level will be 12 dB - 3 dB = 9 dB lower than the maximum sinusoidal level. 107 - 9 = 98 dB SPL (average) for stereo and 113 - 9 = 104 dB SPL (average) for mono. The music power will be ((10^(-9 dB/20))^2)*100 W = 12.5 W stereo and 50.3 W mono.

As you can see from the calculations, given the relatively high 87 dB sensitivity, you will probably find that stereo operation will give you enough output. Bridged mono will give you an average level of 104 dB SPL with 113 dB SPL peaks when playing pop music. This is very loud.

If you listen to recordings with very little compression (high crest factor), you may want two amplifiers.

The Harbeth 30.2 is rated for music power of up to 150 W, so you are safe, even at a crest factor of 6.

The AHB2 has a protection system that monitors the output of the AHB2. This monitoring system is not in the signal path. It simply shuts the amplifier down if an unsafe event occurs. There are several unique features of this system that protect speakers:

The AHB2 monitors THD and if it exceeds 1%, it shuts the amplifier down to protect the speakers. The AHB2 only produces 0.0003 % THD at full power. The 1% THD protection will only occur when the amplifier is driven into clipping. An over-driven amplifier is the leading cause of tweeter failure. This cannot happen with the AHB2. The THD detection will shut the amplifier down before you damage your tweeters.

The AHB2 monitors the DC output of the amplifier and shuts the output and power supplies down if DC is detected on the speaker outputs. DC can destroy a woofer. If the output stage of an amplifier is damaged, the most common result is DC on the speaker outputs. This can never happen with the AHB2.

The AHB2 electronically mutes on turn on and off. There is no relay in the signal path. There is no risk of damage due to a failed relay. The electronic mute system is also designed to be fail safe.

Other protections include monitoring of the output current and detection of short circuits. The AHB2 is bullet proof and it is designed to provide extraordinary protection for speakers.

If you play a high-amplitude sinusoidal test tone into your speakers, the AHB2 could burn them out. If you play music, you will not be able to cause damage (assuming the 150 W music rating is realistic).

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

One of the most common failures in an amplifier output stage is a short to one of the power rails. This type of failure will take out a speaker. The AHB2 has a DC detection circuit that will shut down the entire amplifier including the power supplies. A failed AHB2 would not damage speakers.

Didn't know that, very cool, it's amazing how far you guys thought when designing the amp!

Now where is that money tree when you need it.

 

[DonH56]

A lot of amplifiers include DC sensing to shut down the amp. I only wish my old blaze linear had it back then... Other designs also incorporate muting outside the signal path or use other means than relays and such. And, while some amps include soft-saturation circuitry to reduce distortion under clipping conditions, I am not aware of any other amp that includes THD-sensing circuitry (I certainly don't know all amps, not my field). The combination of performance and protection makes the AHB2 pretty unique. I want one. Actually, I want several, but Lotto has been maddeningly unresponsive, and we like many others are looking at reduced pay this year, so it'll have to wait.