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Benchmark AHB2 vs Quad artera vs hypex class d

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Anyway if I would buy the Benchmark nobody could say something.
its the best measured amp.
would one single benchmark be power full enough for harbeth 30.2?
 

DonH56

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the quote from Alan Shaw

But let's be fair and responsible. Let's set aside all arguments about sound quality and power for a moment.

As I have said before, and strongly echoed by hifi_dave (a lifelong hifi retailer), you have to factor-in after care. An amp that is sold for 179 Euros cannot be built to last. Built to a price point, the procurement department are mandated to shave every cent of the bill of materials as the design engineers use every trick in the book to reduce component count. The attitude is, and this is how consumerism flourishes, 'when it fails chuck it away'.

You have to take a personal view on this. One replacement drive unit in the speaker damaged by a budget amplifier that fails dwarfs the cost of the amplifier. Is that a risk worth running? I'd say no.

Doubly so because to the trained eye, when there is an autopsy on the failed drive unit, the tell-tale signs of amplifier distress failure are unambiguous. So no Warranty cover.

I agree with @naviivan . He is saying damage done to the speaker from "amplifier distress failure" is not covered under warranty. Using it will not void your warranty. If it fails and damages the speaker, that is not covered under warranty. The same thing is true for a $10,000 USD amplifier, or a $250,000 amplifier. He is saying an inexpensive amplifier is more likely to fail, a rather condescending and elitist opinion, and a scare tactic to get you to purchase a better more expensive amplifier. In some cases that is probably true but not in all cases, and even the best amplifier can fail. Seen that...

That said, I have no recent experience with Behringer amplifiers. My experience in the past was that they tended to be noisier and have higher failure rates than more expensive pro amps like Crown, as Alan Shaw said. I do not recall them taking out speakers; usually the amplifier died and its protection circuit protected the speaker (unlike the Phase Linear 700 I had). But, a lot of people use them these days, so what may be better is to open a thread asking about people's experience with Behringer amplifiers. Not on that forum, however, since the bias is already evident. Check out AVS, Audioholics, etc. (and you can post here, of course).

HTH - Don

Edit: How much power you need depends upon how loudly you listen, how far away from them you are, and the room. Best guess: yes, a single AHB2 would drive them more than adequately.
 

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He is saying an inexpensive amplifier is more likely to fail, a rather condescending and elitist opinion, and a scare tactic to get you to purchase a better more expensive amplifier.

Frankly I don't think Shaw gives a sh*t if you buy an expensive amplifier or a cheap one, he doesn't sell amplifiers. Is a 179 Euro amplifier more likely to fail compared to a normal priced one? Probably yes, it's common sense not elitism.
I build a couple of diy amplifiers back in the days, go check the bom on Mouser or Digikey it is interesting. Even the simplest are a couple of hundred Euro only for parts (if you pick good parts, but you can save a lot if you pick not-so-good parts).
 
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carlob

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btw I just checked a couple of pics of the Behringer A800 pcb and first thing I noticed are the crappy Capxcon capacitors (good luck with them), also I don't think the pots are Alps etc.
 

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Inner Space

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My approach is to evaluate the designer ahead of the product. There's a type of person I got to know well, back in my studio and broadcast days - rock solid, rigorous engineers, but also compulsive challenge-seekers. (The guaranteed way to get something fixed fast was to put it in a garbage bag marked "Throw Away - Cannot Be Repaired" ... it would come back good as new in an hour.) Those are the people most likely to come up with something genuinely terrific. And they're generally willing to talk on the phone and stand by their products. Which in this context would be Benchmark. I have AHB2s, and think they are as close to perfect as we can currently get.
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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Anyway if I would buy the Benchmark nobody could say something.
its the best measured amp.
Incorrect.
An AHB2 can also fail or be overdriven, leading to the same signs on the drivers.
Any Speaker manufacturer can deny warranty service because the damage has nothing to do with their product, simple as that.

Personally, while I would love me some AHB2 as well, I believe you are overthinking the matter.
 

carlob

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Also from the pics I have seen I am unable to identify any form of DC protection on the board. Before buying one I would check with Behringer otherwise if the fet fail you are going to feed the rail voltage into your speakers.
 

Inner Space

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Incorrect.
An AHB2 can also fail or be overdriven, leading to the same signs on the drivers.

The guy didn't say "AHB2s never fail" - he said it's the best measured amp, which is largely correct. And my own point was, you need to look for a designer who is well aware of the cascade of damage he could cause, and so makes it his absolute first priority to regard failure as a certainty and make sure it's contained. I would say that, given its protection protocols, the AHB2 is the least likely to fry anything else, even following catastrophic failure.
 

RichB

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Incorrect.
An AHB2 can also fail or be overdriven, leading to the same signs on the drivers.
Any Speaker manufacturer can deny warranty service because the damage has nothing to do with their product, simple as that.

Personally, while I would love me some AHB2 as well, I believe you are overthinking the matter.

The AHB2 has comprehensive protection mechanisms:
No this is not a problem at all. Capacitive or inductive speaker loads will not cause stability issues. The feed-forward system is inherently stable. The only limitation is the over-current protection circuit. The amplifier will shut down if repetitive peak currents exceed 29 Amps or if the RMS current exceeds 20.5 Amps for more than a few seconds.

The TEMP lights will flash when peak currents exceed 29 Amps. This is a warning that the protection will kick in if the condition persists. The CLIP lights will flash whenever the amplifier is driven into voltage clipping causing the THD to exceed about 0.5%. If the CLIP and TEMP lights flash together, it indicates that you have simultaneously reached the voltage and current limits of the AHB2. Each channel has its own set of lights and has its own protection monitoring. If protection is triggered, both channel will mute. To protect your tweeters, the distortion monitoring will not allow sustained operation if the amplifier is driven into voltage clipping resulting in a sustained THD exceeding 1%.

I suppose any amp could go south but the AHB2 is designed to preserve speakers by limiting distortion.

- Rich
 

RichB

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btw I just checked a couple of pics of the Behringer A800 pcb and first thing I noticed are the crappy Capxcon capacitors (good luck with them), also I don't think the pots are Alps etc.

Crapacitors :p

- Rich
 
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btw I just checked a couple of pics of the Behringer A800 pcb and first thing I noticed are the crappy Capxcon capacitors (good luck with them), also I don't think the pots are Alps etc.

so basically you re saying it’s crap and it’s good for the bin?
i m not cynical English is not my native language.
how is it possible that this cheap, and shit parts amplifier have good measurements.
that say a lot about all the other amplifiers, who have worse measurements.
i m not technical educated, so I go by what people say on this forum
 
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Incorrect.
An AHB2 can also fail or be overdriven, leading to the same signs on the drivers.
Any Speaker manufacturer can deny warranty service because the damage has nothing to do with their product, simple as that.

Personally, while I would love me some AHB2 as well, I believe you are overthinking the matter.

what you are saying is what ever amplifier you buy, the manufacturer of the speaker can always hide and say it’s the amplifier fault.
the fact in my case that Alan Shaw responded the way he did ( I have more on private email ) believe me he means it the way I put it down! Makes me wonder what if something’s happen.
i like to believe an amplifier from a company as behringer crown etc etc Luxman whatever that those amplifiers must have a standard that will cause no harm to our speakers?! And if so that the manufacturer of the amplifier will repair you re speakers will this ever happen?
 

naviivan

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so basically you re saying it’s crap and it’s good for the bin?
i m not cynical English is not my native language.
how is it possible that this cheap, and shit parts amplifier have good measurements.
that say a lot about all the other amplifiers, who have worse measurements.
i m not technical educated, so I go by what people say on this forum
it may have not the best capacitors but you have to remember it’s made to a price point. it will still work with your speakers and probably for many more years.
You’ll probably upgrade before it gets a chance to coming close to failing on you.
keep using it if it makes you happy.
 
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it may have not the best capacitors but you have to remember it’s made to a price point. it will still work with your speakers and probably for many more years.
You’ll probably upgrade before it gets a chance to coming close to failing on you.
keep using it if it makes you happy.

Sound wise it made me happy, compared with my Accuphase which is 60 times more expensive,
basically on loud levels it played better.
I know it’s build to last maybe 2 years.
But still it have one year warranty, so if it fails In the first year and therefore it brake my speakers behringer should pay for it or not?
i Can buy one every year new for the next 10 years and still spend only 1790 euro s by way of speaking.
but I need to know, if an amplifier fails and it damage the speaker if that happens during warranty from the amp they should pay for the speaker yes or no?
 
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Just now of reading all this, what was not said in the review of the behringer.
We know that behringer never will pay for the costs on the speaker.
That will become a long legal battle.
 
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So I’m not so happy anymore.
therefore I want to buy a benchmark.
but what is the policy of benchmark regarding this problem.
If its the fault of the amplifier that cause damage on the speaker.
Will benchmark the cost of the speaker when this happen in warranty.
And what out warranty?
In Europe we have only 2 years.
 

Aerith Gainsborough

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what you are saying is what ever amplifier you buy, the manufacturer of the speaker can always hide and say it’s the amplifier fault.

i like to believe an amplifier from a company as behringer crown etc etc Luxman whatever that those amplifiers must have a standard that will cause no harm to our speakers?!
Would they service under warranty if your kid kicked in the woofer?
No.
So why should they do so if a user uses an defective amp or mis-uses the amp (e.g. overdriving it)?
To them, there is no difference: some factor out of their control damaged the product -> not covered by the warranty.

The Behringer is aimed at professional applications and people. These people know what to do and what not to do, so there is no need for elaborate protective measures analogous to the AHB-2. We as home users often do not have the knowledge and experience needed.
Also, in a PA setting (delivering sound to crowds of people), people are generally not concerned with uber SINAD stats and audiophilia nonsense, they want power, reliable and cheap.

Get the AHB-2 if it makes you happy but don't worry so much about your Behringer. It will work just fine, just as millions of consumers drive their speakers just fine with AVRs budget amps, that most definitely do not use exotic and super impressive components.
 
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Would they service under warranty if your kid kicked in the woofer?
No.
So why should they do so if a user uses an defective amp or mis-uses the amp (e.g. overdriving it)?
To them, there is no difference: some factor out of their control damaged the product -> not covered by the warranty.

The Behringer is aimed at professional applications and people. These people know what to do and what not to do, so there is no need for elaborate protective measures analogous to the AHB-2. We as home users often do not have the knowledge and experience needed.
Also, in a PA setting (delivering sound to crowds of people), people are generally not concerned with uber SINAD stats and audiophilia nonsense, they want power, reliable and cheap.

Get the AHB-2 if it makes you happy but don't worry so much about your Behringer. It will work just fine, just as millions of consumers drive their speakers just fine with AVRs budget amps, that most definitely do not use exotic and super impressive components.

thx for the reply, just you overlooked an important sentence.

“If its the fault of the amplifier that cause damage on the speaker.” That was the exercise, not overdriven, not misuses,
no playing football with the amp etc
 

Willem

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He did try to use an Artera Integrated at a recent UK show but it's suspected he didn't set the gain correctly as he found it underpowered (too quiet?).
It was not the 2x140 wat Artera that he used but a much less powerful Quad model. I use a refurbished Quad 606-2 in my system and have no complaints. It is a well respected design, and I would only consider something else if I needed more power. I might then go for the bridged Quad QMP or a Hypex amplifier for the lowest price for a really powerful amplifier that also measures very well. But I am happy now. The AHB2 is of course the ultimate amplifier, but I would like more power and I find the price of two in bridged mode a bit hard to justify compared to what else I might do with that money.
 

Willem

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Alan Shaw was perfectly clear and fair: if your amplifier malfunctions and damages your speaker, there is no warranty (he did not say that there will be no warranty if it is not the cheap amplifier that damaged your speaker). It is also perfectly reasonable to think that a very cheap amplifier may do so more often than a rock solid design with a long pedigree.
 
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