Benchmark ABH2 Replacement

[shion_ca]

Why would you want to mimic the sound of a broken amp ( although I am sure it is perfectly possible)?
Keith

If you've heard a good one and ask the question then by virtue of you asking I could never explain. I couldn't explain that to you anymore than I could why I like a laphroaig over an Oban. I mean why would you want all that peat interfering with a perfect reproduction of whiskey.

 

[SIY]

I mean why would you want all that peat interfering with a perfect reproduction of whiskey.

Whiskey is a reproduction? Of what, exactly?

 

[pablolie]

If you've heard a good one and ask the question then by virtue of you asking I could never explain. I couldn't explain that to you anymore than I could why I like a laphroaig over an Oban. I mean why would you want all that peat interfering with a perfect reproduction of whiskey.

Not my domain but I think even that preference is measurable. ph levels and such. But it's also an area no one tries to rationalize.

I have strong preferences in wine, but I'd never waste a single second trying to argue why they would be "better" and pulling pseudo science to "prove" it. They are just my preferences.

 

[shion_ca]

Not my domain but I think even that preference is measurable. ph levels and such. But it's also an area no one tries to rationalize.

I have strong preferences in wine, but I'd never waste a single second trying to argue why they would be "better" and pulling pseudo sceubento "prove" it. They are just my preferences.

Exactly. If you hear a set amp and it’s your preference then that’s the amp for you.

 

[Palladium]

you ever heard a DSP that could really indistinguishably mimic a SET tube amp?

Now this is funny when its an obsolete topology by tube standards even before solid state became mainstream.

I believe the ideal for listening to musing should be your personal perceived enjoyment of it, not exact reproduction of the sound at the event. In fact I suspect much of the mastering that goes on makes your music sound nothing like it actually happened at the event anyway.

I'm not even gonna bother with this drivel.

 

[shion_ca]

Now this is funny when its an obsolete topology by tube standards even before solid state became mainstream.

To be fair I have Manley Neo-classic 250's that I drive my piega C-8 Ltd's with... so I'm not into the Good Set stuff I've heard either. But I get why people who like it like it. and I've never heard a DSP that can make music sound like they do coming out of those. Probably because it litterally interacts with the load differently at different frequencies and its not simply a rolled off top or whatever that you can do with an equaliser but rather specific harmonic enhancements that gives kind of an enchanting presence to vocals and richness. It's not my exact preference but I totally get why it is for some and I've never heard a DSP that can mimic it. And yes I think it is totally valid that folks would like that sound and want to reproduce it. It's quite pleasant.

Now my Manleys also bloom the vocals a bit and give them a richness and emphasis that probably isn't exactly in the recording. Violins sound a little richer and more "organic" you'll yell at me for saying it. I've also got a bell canto S300 that I'll soon replace with a Purifi 9040 hopefully. It also sounds great and clean and neutral and yet "liquid" in my system. But both are preferred for different songs. The bass is much tighter than my triode Manley, but the vocals don't have quite the same magic. And if I could only have one I'd pick the Manley (if it wasn't for the massive expense of what happens when the tubes blow the resistors and put the damn thing out of commission. So that's a hard call... in my limited time these days futzing with the thing to get that sound might swing things in favour of a good solid state amp... but not because of the sound.

 

[dlaloum]

I kinda like my rose coloured glasses. The exact sound staging I get from sitting in front of my speakers and having a vocalist sized exactly right compared to the instruments, as well as getting the exact position of those instruments, probably sounds nothing like the original sound at the performance. Similarly I also enjoy a little more harmonic richness than the original performance likely has. If I had a hearing disability in the higher frequencies, where they started to irritate me when played as per the performance I would also seek a system that tamed those.

I believe the ideal for listening to musing should be your personal perceived enjoyment of it, not exact reproduction of the sound at the event. In fact I suspect much of the mastering that goes on makes your music sound nothing like it actually happened at the event anyway.

So I think there's nothing wrong in seeking a music system that sounds good to you, if that's preferable to what the actual event sounds like by your estimation. So I'd argue you exactly want to choose a system for how it is perceived by you, and not how closely it replays the original event... which is a fiction given everything is mastered.

The surrealist responds to the realist....

 

[dlaloum]

Seems like components that are not accurate should sell for less $ than ones that are accurate. It's always makes me scratch my head when I try to understand why people pay extra for poorly designed components.

Anyway, there are different ways of arriving at the 'sound' one prefers. You can play around with trying out various colored components, or you can assemble a system that is a neutral/ transparent as possible, and then dial in the preferred 'sound' with DSP. The latter approach allows one to tailor on the fly.

Same reason many people prefer their photos "photoshopped" rather than the original unedited version...

And photoshopping the original in a controlled manner, takes time, effort, and resources.... ie: cost

On the other hand, you could view the original through slightly distorting lenses... for example, ones that create a universal soft focus effect - and many people would find this perfectly adequate... while costing less than the sophisticated photoshop version...

This is where HiFi parts ways with Audiophilia... the former is focused on accurate reproduction, something which has always been ,and remains, a challenge to this day... Where audiophilia is focused on the enjoyment of the outcome... with accuracy of reproduction being secondary... or in some cases completely irrelevant! (and that is still included within the grouping "audiophilia")

IMO - a setup focused on accuracy (a HiFi system) - can then, via DSP, be adjusted to taste, where an "audiophile" system, may be quite unable to approach "High Fidelity" due to built in distortions (distortions defined as differences from the original, whether pleasing/desirable, or not).

 

[dlaloum]

you ever heard a DSP that could really indistinguishably mimic a SET tube amp?

I believe that the famous (and infamous) amp designer Bob Carver took up that (or a very similar) challenge quite successfully...

The Carver Challenge

Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.

www.stereophile.com

I would think that achieving this with a DSP would be easier...

 

[BlackTalon]

IMO - a setup focused on accuracy (a HiFi system) - can then, via DSP, be adjusted to taste, where an "audiophile" system, may be quite unable to approach "High Fidelity" due to built in distortions (distortions defined as differences from the original, whether pleasing/desirable, or not).

Hey, that's what I said

 

[pogo]

Probably because it litterally interacts with the load differently at different frequencies and its not simply a rolled off top or whatever

...and at different volumes.
You would also have to know the transient response (swing-in/-out bahavior, ...) over the entire frequency range at each volume of the overall system and would have to model it.

 

[shion_ca]

...and at different volumes.
You would also have to know the transient response (swing-in/-out bahavior, ...) over the entire frequency range at each volume of the overall system and would have to model it.

Yes, Its been 25 year or so since I did real electrical engineering having converted to software... but I still know enough to spot when folks have started treating science like voodoo. If one is in a science forum it doesn't do to suddenly discard basic electrical principals when they become inconvenient to one's biases.

 

[MaxBuck]

Q: What do I get out of the colloquy in this thread?

A: People are willing to tell themselves all manner of codswollop when discussing why something that is excellent should be replaced by something mediocre.

 

[Theta]

Yep,I thought the same that's why I searched.
Specially with a Benchmark product it would be odd.

That's from there site:

Audio Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor"

Myth - "Damping Factor Isn't Much of a Factor" Myth - "A Damping Factor of 10 is High Enough" Myth - "All Amplifiers Have a High-Enough Damping Factor" Where did these Myths Originate? These myths seem to trace back to a well-known paper (PDF) written by Dick Pierce. His analysis shows that a...

benchmarkmedia.com

The numbers shown above does not add up with the actual measurements.

Decades ago I bought I bought a Vandersteen ss amp that had the highest damping factor available, 200 Watt per side 8 Ohms. Bass was well controled of course ,Mids were awfull. Huge caps in the power supply does not make a good amp. I suspect the reverse may be true.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello OP @Joesax,

Even though quite belated, I just came across with this interesting thread.

Just for your possible reference and interest, I use ACCUPHASE E-460 integrated amplifier which is dedicatedly and directly driving YAMAHA 8.8 cm Beryllium midrange driver covering ca. 500 Hz throughout 6,000 Hz (I believe one of the best or the very best midrange dome drivers ever produced), in my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active stereo audio system (ref. post #931 on my project thread for details of the latest system setup).

During my long and intensive amplifier exploration journey, I also tested/evaluated BENCHMARK AHB2 in comparison with and together with ACCUPHASE E-460 and/or ROTEL RB-1582 Mk II;

Spoiler

- Benchmark AHB2 (class-A[H]B)_Part-1_Comparison with ACCUPHASE E-460 in Single-Amplifier + LC-Network full range reference sound system: #253
- Benchmark AHB2 (class-A[H]B)_Part-2_Incorporation in multichannel multi-amplifier system and Listening sessions: #258, #265

- Rotel RB-1582 MkII (class-AB)_Part-1_Comparison with AccuphaseE-460 and Benchmark AHB2 in single-Amplifier + LC-network full range reference sound system: #263
- Rotel RB-1582 MkII (class-AB)_Part-2_Incorporation in multichannel multi-amplifier system and listening Sessions: #264, #265

I also evaluated small Class-A ACCUPHSE A-36;

Spoiler

- Accuphase A-36 (class-A)_Part-1_In single-amplifier and bi-amplifier + LC-network audio system: #282
- Accuphase A-36 (class-A)_Part-2_In multichannel multi-amplifier audio system: #283

You may find my provisional summary of amplifier selection exploration here #311 on my project thread.

At least in my multichannel audio system in my listening acoustic environment, both AHB2 and E-460 work/sound amazingly nice for my ears and brain, and I can well understand your subjective fascination and more importantly your great "relief" with ACCUPHASE P-4600; sorry for this not-ASR-style comment/post.

Edit to add:
Accuphase gears are rather expensive, but it includes their service and maintenance policy/practice.
I wrote here;

Spoiler

Accuphase provides repair and maintenance services for any of their past and present products sold in the past 50 years. Just one phone call to Accuphase, and they collect the amps (by the specially contracted transfer company having huge Accuphase boxes) at your home and they send it back to you afterwards; usually within one week quick and perfect service (in Japan) in reasonable cost after the warranty period. Of course the service is completely free within the warranty period.

I did it three times on my E-460; Accuphase's own decision to replace one capacitor (after the warranty period but of course free; a kind of gentle/generous preventive recall?), one repair for my mistake (short-circuit at SP terminals while operation) and one full overhaul maintenance.

They have several large storage rooms keeping huge amount of amp parts, including rather old capacitors, resistors, inductors and so on, used in their old products. In case if they cannot find the same parts, sometimes they even handmade it (by themselves or by contract-out) for perfect repair and maintenance, still in reasonable cost for us.

Their comparably high price list includes the cost covering such repair/maintenance policy, operation, human resources and services, I believe.

These policy and practice are of course the same for overseas users through the appointed dealers.
Also I wrote here;

Spoiler

Accuphase is intentionally restricting their export sales less than 30 % of their total business revenue in order to keep existing as an pure Japanese independent sustainable company;
http://www.accuphase.com/company_profile/a2_management_policies_2.pdf

Furthermore, this thread "Mark Levinson or Accuphase" would be also of your reference and interest, I assume.