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Belden ICONOCLAST XLR Cable Review

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  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 152 53.9%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 86 30.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 21 7.4%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 23 8.2%

  • Total voters
    282

srkbear

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Another pointless cable measurement/discussion?
You know, I’m really getting tired of these pompously cynical comments. Amir put effort into this review, and I both learned something from it and enjoyed the discussion. Other than showing your disdain for Amir and us plebes, what are you contributing that’s so fascinating? Have you showed your support for ASR by donating funds or effort? Have you submitted anything for review if you think this is so pointless? Or is your fund of knowledge absolute after a year on here? Seriously, manners.
 

srkbear

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David, rather presumptuous.

I only have a couple of friends who have good stereo systems and if we ever discuss anything it is usually what vinyl we’ve bought recently. We have only very rarely discussed equipment and I can’t remember ever discussing cables.

The vast majority of the customers of dealers I’ve spoken to never look at forums, they buy audio to listen to music, not for bragging rights.

Well there’s a study with n=1 refuting his argument, with you and your group of friends representing the audiophile set at large.

I don’t know what rarified world you live in, but I’ve visited many wealthy homes where I live with the glowing McIntosh stacks displayed prominently in their media rooms and you better believe that TOTL cables are part of the package—and nobody even listens to them. I think you’re forgetting the self-satisfaction ostentatious folks feel simply knowing that they plopped down their platinum cards and bought the most expensive setup their salesperson could choose for them.

But even with my anecdotes aside, have you ever spent some time on Head-Fi? Who needs friends when you can practice one-upmanship at any hour of the day in your virtual tribes? You can’t really believe that folks only shell out wads of cash for TOTL ultra-pricey brands just to listen to music—you simply cannot be that naive. That’s like saying that people only buy Lamborghini Countaches because they love to drive.
 
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Universal Cereal Bus

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Well there’s a study with n=1 refuting his argument, with you and your group of friends representing the audiophile set at large.

I don’t know what rarified world you live in, but I’ve visited many wealthy homes where I live with the glowing McIntosh stacks displayed prominently in the media rooms and you better believe that TOTL cables are part of the package—and nobody even listens to them. I think you’re forgetting the self-satisfaction ostentatious folks feel simply knowing that they plopped down their platinum cards and bought the most expensive setup their salesperson chose for them.

But even with my anecdotes aside, have you ever spent some time on Head-Fi? Who needs friends when you can practice one-upmanship at any hour of the day in your virtual tribes? You can’t really believe that folks only shell out wads of cash for TOTL ultra-pricey brands just to listen to music—you simply cannot be that naive. That’s like saying that people only buy Lamborghini Countaches because they love to drive.
They buy those cars for the doors.
 

Mart68

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IME enthusiasts do not buy expensive cables to impress their mates.

They buy them (or make them) because they genuinely believe that they all sound different and they genuinely believe that cables make a big difference to the sound of their systems.

I'm sure there are a few non-enthusiasts who have bought expensive systems they hardly ever use, just to add to their collection of toys, but I don't know anyone personally who fits that description.

With regards to this specific cable, if the bloke making them is so sure they change the sound, why no blind tests? That's always the hurdle that these people fall at.

Instead they always rely on 'Bullshit Baffles Brains.' That should tell any thinking person all they need to know.
 

DWI

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Well there’s a study with n=1 refuting his argument, with you and your group of friends representing the audiophile set at large.

I don’t know what rarified world you live in, but I’ve visited many wealthy homes where I live with the glowing McIntosh stacks displayed prominently in their media rooms and you better believe that TOTL cables are part of the package—and nobody even listens to them. I think you’re forgetting the self-satisfaction ostentatious folks feel simply knowing that they plopped down their platinum cards and bought the most expensive setup their salesperson could choose for them.

But even with my anecdotes aside, have you ever spent some time on Head-Fi? Who needs friends when you can practice one-upmanship at any hour of the day in your virtual tribes? You can’t really believe that folks only shell out wads of cash for TOTL ultra-pricey brands just to listen to music—you simply cannot be that naive. That’s like saying that people only buy Lamborghini Countaches because they love to drive.
No, I’ve never visited head-fi because I don‘t use headphones.

DSJR said “nobody” and the few people I know with static audio systems are not in the least ostentatious, quite normal because in the UK it’s quite rude to boast about money or wealth or even mention it. Property here is expensive, $2m or $3m is nothing special, a first small apartment for $800k is common, so if someone had a Mackintosh audio system it wouldn’t even register from a financial perspective. I don’t have any friends with a media room, most tend to have systems wired in (often ceiling systems, Sonos etc.). I did know someone who rebuilt a house with a media room, but he also put in a bowling alley and an indoor pool, which in Central London really is impressive. His wife said it would be nice for the children.

Amir should know better than anyone that in a well designed modern automated house you might expect to have sound everywhere. We have 8 sound zones, with no visible electronics or speakers.

We are going to see friends this afternoon, he is a property developer, he did a terrace of 8 very expensive houses about 10 years ago with media rooms and all electronics and screens were hidden. In many of these houses the audio systems are chosen by the architect or interior designer. They come within the M&E budget.

Plus, in a town where the speed limit is mostly 20 miles per hour with no urban freeways, if you drive a Lamborghini Coutache most people will think you are a complete idiot.
 

MattHooper

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David, rather presumptuous. I’ll happily admit I use what you call luxury audio gear, although I don’t think “luxury” describes a handful of nondescript boxes sitting in a cupboard. I personally use a long £15 fibre optic, $10 Blue Jeans CAT6a and a £5 usb cable. Analogue are a basic Jelco DIN cable and 4m speaker cables that were a p/x a fraction of this Iconoclast cable.

FWIW: same here. I own some gear with audiophile cred, but use basic cables (Belden)

“The reality in the UK and EU at least is that most high end audio is still sold through dealers, due to geography and commercial laws that do not have a parallel in the USA. The vast majority of the customers of dealers I’ve spoken to never look at forums, they buy audio to listen to music, not for bragging rights.”



Same here. Can’t remember ever meeting an audiophile who bragged about his cables or made much ado at all about them.
 

Mart68

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No, I’ve never visited head-fi because I don‘t use headphones.

DSJR said “nobody” and the few people I know with static audio systems are not in the least ostentatious, quite normal because in the UK it’s quite rude to boast about money or wealth or even mention it. Property here is expensive, $2m or $3m is nothing special, a first small apartment for $800k is common, so if someone had a Mackintosh audio system it wouldn’t even register from a financial perspective.
This is a bit London/Southern England-centric. Where I live you can still buy a house for £100K. Average UK house price is currently £277K as of February this year https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/february2022

But otherwise I agree, if someone wants to impress others with their wealth an expensive hi-fi system is not the way to do it. Most of their friends will have no idea what it is or how much it cost and those who do know will likely already have an expensive system themselves and so consider it to be no big deal.
 

DWI

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This is a bit London/Southern England-centric. Where I live you can still buy a house for £100K. Average UK house price is currently £277K as of February this year https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/february2022

But otherwise I agree, if someone wants to impress others with their wealth an expensive hi-fi system is not the way to do it. Most of their friends will have no idea what it is or how much it cost and those who do know will likely already have an expensive system themselves and so consider it to be no big deal.
DJSR referred specifically to KJ WestOne, which is a Central London dealer. It’s not exactly unique, there is an equally high end dealer called Audio Lounge a 5 minute walk away.

I know plenty of people with no money and others with a huge amount, and lots in between. I’m sure others here do as well. Easy Jet and Private Jet. Where we are it’s not something that is ever discussed and no one really cares. My experience is that the more money people make, the more private they become, and when they get seriously rich they almost disappear.

I get the feeling that people without much money bitching about people with money spending it on hifi completely misses the point. The £500k hifi system is likely one of their least expensive toys, well down the list after the yacht and cars, watches, whatever. It’s just a completely different mentality. And as for the comment about flashing Platinum credit cards, bank transfers seem to be the order of the day. I would never buy any luxury item on credit.
 

Purité Audio

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It doesn’t matter how much money someone has or doesn’t have a rip-off is still a rip-off.
Keith
 

DSJR

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David, rather presumptuous. I’ll happily admit I use what you call luxury audio gear, although I don’t think “luxury” describes a handful of nondescript boxes sitting in a cupboard. I personally use a long £15 fibre optic, $10 Blue Jeans CAT6a and a £5 usb cable. Analogue are a basic Jelco DIN cable and 4m speaker cables that were a p/x a fraction of this Iconoclast cable.

I only have a couple of friends who have good stereo systems and if we ever discuss anything it is usually what vinyl we’ve bought recently. We have only very rarely discussed equipment and I can’t remember ever discussing cables.

The reality in the UK and EU at least is that most high end audio is still sold through dealers, due to geography and commercial laws that do not have a parallel in the USA. The vast majority of the customers of dealers I’ve spoken to never look at forums, they buy audio to listen to music, not for bragging rights.

Also very presumptuous. The business changed ownership about 12 years ago following a catastrophic flood and needed major rebuilding. It was recently refurbished, taking advantage of Covid closure, and was done by someone in the business, who is an interior designer. It is pretty typical for the area.

Moreover, being primarily a retail business, their website does not include everything they sell, far from it, whatever your budget they will accommodate you, and they sell plenty of stuff cheaper than things recommended here, including budget cables. Whether you are spending £500 or £1,000,000, you get the same level of service.

Even though I read a few online forums, my audio has always been purchased retail and not based on reviews or what anyone says online. I’m glad I don’t know anyone who wants to show me their audio cables.
You're a customer, I was a dealer and knew the mentality of a lot of UK High End clients, all following the mantra of matching expensive wires to go with the gear (Ab Sounds portfolio as well as now mad priced Linn and Naim). My old pal worked at KJ in its current Russian owned form for years until recently, so please don't think I know nothing of that business (I was at New Cavendish St too for a short while when the previous owners took over, so do know the layout and 'mentality' of the place generally ;)). As for the KJ premises, they needed a bloody good total refit downstairs and up as it had become a bit of an untidy rabbit warren down there.. As far as I knew, their beer-budget gear level started with Quad and Harbeth and went up from there. If they have good accounts with some wholesalers, they may well be able to get Q Acoustics and other lower cost electronics brands, but that really isn't part of their business model.

P.S. the (lay but fast learning) DIY enthusiasts that Mart68 refers to, I suspect never visit a higher end dealer and the kind of shows they go to are often attended and exhibited by like minded lay or barely pro people, the latter doing little more than one-offs. They're often great people with a keen enthusiasm, but maybe sometimes misled by their non auditory senses where flash audio gear is concerned. The people here on ASR may well have 'nice' gear and basic wiring (I'd expect nothing less), but when I try out a new cheap cable (Amazon Basics, or next step up, a Van Damme [the absolute lowest of the low in enthusiast circles for some reason and only one small step above a freebie patch cord in their eyes]), I still feel guilty and wondering what a more expensive pro based cable does over this level - I've long ago dismissed anything pricey bought from a dealer, knowing the huge margins dealers often or usually have on such wires - look at a dealers price and then halve it or even more, to give a better idea...
 
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SIY

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I stopped participating in "audiophile societies" because all they wanted to do was talk about the latest "thing" they just bought, whether wire or accessories or DACs or whatever. The people they were trying to impress was their peer group. All of the talks were sales promotions by traveling hucksters or local dealers.

When I was living near Chicago, I offered to give some technical talks, like what does "balanced" versus "single ended" mean, how to run valid listening tests, how to interpret measurements, etc etc etc. The officers of the club thanked me for my offer, but replied, "We've done stuff like that before and the members weren't really interested." And the meeting that day featured a fashion audio amplifier sales guy talking about their latest and greatest unit, which was developed after thousands of hours listening to differences in PCB material and resistor brands.

So I do think that showing off to your friends is a big part of the fancy wire deal. Unlike buying Porsches or custom Italian suits, it doesn't get you any closer to getting laid, so I don't personally understand the attraction of this.
 

DSJR

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Got to quickly add that when I used to travel up and down the M1 motorway from our London base to the home counties store, I'd often see Porsches and Ferrari's all travelling at *exactly* the speed limit in the inside lane quite often, as being a bit 'naughty' with their speeds would be immediately picked up by the police patrols, often in unmarked cars. All the reps in their current flavour of the month tin box would zoom past them doing well over the limit.. My thought was 'Why own such a vehicle when you can't safely or legally use its performance advantages?' I didn't understand the answer 'Because I can!' back then ;)
 
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DWI

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You're a customer, I was a dealer and knew the mentality of a lot of UK High End clients, all following the mantra of matching expensive wires to go with the gear (Ab Sounds portfolio as well as now mad priced Linn and Naim). My old pal worked at KJ in its current Russian owned form for years until recently, so please don't think I know nothing of that business (I was at New Cavendish St too for a short while when the previous owners took over, so do know the layout and 'mentality' of the place generally ;) As for the KJ premises, they needed a bloody good total refit downstairs and up as it had become a bit of an untidy rabbit warren down there.. As far as I knew, their beer-budget gear level started with Quad and Harbeth and went up from there. If they have good accounts with some wholesalers, they may well be able to get Q Acoustics and other lower cost electronics brands, but that really isn't part of their business model.
I was also a professional advisor in relation to the business under the previous management, so knew all about its finances and business model. More I cannot say. I am also a customer, first purchase was in 1980, most recent 2 months ago. I bought a Naim Qb2 there, £750, not exactly high end.

At the end of the day it's a retail store with a wide client base. Many stores in Central London have international clients because it's an international town, but they have a good idea what their clients are prepared to spend and don't try and oversell. Their website is not their full product list.

A lot of cheaper stuff is sold online. I'm also a fan of Richer Sounds, bought from them as well, all budget and AV.

The point about KJ and similar dealers is that their operation is probably completely and totally uninfluenced by anything that is discussed or sold online, discussed in ASR or anywhere else. Unlike Amir, they rarely have opinions on things, they let you listen and make your own mind up. The only opinions I've been given is not to listen to things they know I would not like.
 

Midwest Blade

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Whew, 15 pages of posts, round and round we go…I’m done trying to follow this discussion.
 

DWI

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Got to quickly add that when I used to travel up and down the M1 motorway from our London base to the home counties store, I'd often see Porsches and Ferrari's all travelling at *exactly* the speed limit in the inside lane quite often, as being a bit 'naughty' with their speeds would be immediately picked up by the police patrols, often in unmarked cars. All the reps in their current flavour of the month tin box would zoom past them doing well over the limit.. My thought was 'Why own such a vehicle when you can't safely or legally use its performance advantages?' I didn't understand the answer 'Because I can!' back then ;)
I once drove from London to Central Sheffield in an XR2i in 90 minutes. Nowadays that would get me locked up.

Reduced speed limits, congestion charging and limited parking make many cars impractical. My father had an E-type, but sold it because he kept on damaging the exhaust box on speed bumps. We were in Notting Hill yesterday, saw a few Lamborghini's, the 4x4 type (don't know the name). There was one Ferrari revving his engine, don't remember seeing a single Porsche. People are very conscious of pollution levels, most of the streets are reduced width for eating or closed for street markets. The average price of a 3-bedroom house is about £3.5m ($4.5m), so a flashy car doesn't impress anyone.
 

DSJR

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They must have opinions as to what they stock, but not knowing the current crowd I can't say as to their experience in what a good product is to them (same with most dealers I suppose as it's a multi-faceted decision - what do they think they can sell, how much can they sell it for and at the end of the day, do they like the 'sound' enough in their dem room to be able to demonstrate it properly).

I've seen the opposite to business common sense in a competing dealer now long gone, with totally blinkered narrow minded dedication to the 'terrible two' UK brands back in the day (those that don't know, don't need to :D ) The clients wishing to upgrade from this narrow level ended up going to the likes of KJ and other sellers of the 'Absolute Sounds Portfolio in London and my pal and I felt it was a huge and business-limiting shame. we were kind-of proved right in the mid 90's, but that's another story not for here or now....
 

SIY

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Got to quickly add that when I used to travel up and down the M1 motorway from our London base to the home counties store, I'd often see Porsches and Ferrari's all travelling at *exactly* the speed limit in the inside lane quite often, as being a bit 'naughty' with their speeds would be immediately picked up by the police patrols, often in unmarked cars. All the reps in their current flavour of the month tin box would zoom past them doing well over the limit.. My thought was 'Why own such a vehicle when you can't safely or legally use its performance advantages?' I didn't understand the answer 'Because I can!' back then ;)
 
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