Belden ICONOCLAST XLR Cable Review

[Purité Audio]

When challenged, Galen says things like this:
"You live in a world that sees no future except the past. I can't help you there. You have been given a chance to go forward, use the cables...get back to me. The proof of capability compared to the standards is there. Certainly things can't improve with no change. I made those changes. You seem intent to take away beauty from the world, to leave people and places worse off than you found them, for the sport of it."

My wife says something along the same lines to me almost every day.
Keith

 

[D700]

How exactly are these cables “fantastic bang for the buck”? Are you a Count somewhere?

BJC and Belden makes lots of reasonably priced high quality cables. My point was don’t judge and write off the whole brands and the companies by this particular line of product…as happens a lot with readers in passing…

 

[mathman]

Will buy one once they get an utility patent in the US on their cable.

Judging from their chief EE's words this will be a walk in the park and clearly the next thing they will do after such a feat of engineering.

 

[sam_adams]

Exact copies of CD's, played via the same transport, sound different to him.

Julian Dunn - The Numerically-Identical CD Mystery - A Study in Perception versus Measurement.

Quite the mystery.

 

[srkbear]

BJC and Belden makes lots of reasonably priced high quality cables. My point was don’t judge and write off the whole brands and the companies by this particular line of product…as happens a lot with readers in passing…

Your argument is a bit like coming to the defense of ESS on a review here because some manufacturer stuck a 9038pro in a $20,000 DAC. Who’s talking about the substrates of this cable? I’m a bit confused about your motives in sharing this—I don’t think anyone is conflating Iconoclast with Belden or BJC.

Mr. Gareis attempted to hijack this independent, unbiased review from the start, and exposed himself to judgment by writing an eleven paragraph pile of audio woo in defense of his specious claims and predatory prices. Great, he uses reasonably-priced materials from reputable suppliers and adds a 1000% surcharge for his vision and the little card he ships with his cables. Noted.

 

[srkbear]

Just took the time to read Galens reply. I assume you received it by e-mail @amirm ? If so, are you 100% sure Galen is the sender because it think someone is pulling your leg.

Someone’s pulling his leg alright, and I’m pretty sure it’s Galen! Only someone who charges a grand for a short patch cable could have put that much thought into a confidence game.

Besides, he couldn’t have written all that hocus pocus on the spot—I bet he has reams of claptrap in his strategy files he’s been compiling just for this exact moment. How else d’ya think he managed to intercept Amir’s purchase so fast? I’ll bet he had an ASR attaché before he even applied for a business license…

 

[Ein]

So, cables changes all path, where audio engineering is ON, and that hard engineering work before plug-in CABLE is finally pointless? Because ICONOCLAST change everything?! That is so, so, so stupid and anti-science and anti-logical and anti-rational GOLDENcableINDU$try point of view. ICONOCLAST (bigs letters of course here and more clowns marketings here, that name ha, ha, ha smells like pure scam...) is 25-35 dollars wire and plugs plus 750$ tax for stupidity of owner. Letter from juggler in short, translate: "you don't understand Amirm, we sell faith, no more" (sorry Mike, you are Good of Live, but I wrote "," so no sully here )

 

[MattHooper]

Fortunately science doesn't rely on appeals to authority or even the level of experience per se of any scientist, no matter how accomplished.

Everyone is human, everyone can become besotted with their own pet hypotheses or beliefs, including the best engineers and scientists. It's to weed out reliable information from this noise that science relies on evidence, peer review, replication and other forms of checking claims (when science is operating at it's best - and good engineering is an epistemic bedfellow).

In writing that, I'm not trying to pre-judge Galen's particular claim for the iconoclast cables. It would be true whether Amir found significant measurable differences or not. The implications of Amir's tests at this point, however, are a reminder of why science places the demands it does on claims.

 

[mansr]

Everyone is human, everyone can become besotted with their own pet hypotheses or beliefs, including the best engineers and scientists.

Nobel disease

Nobel disease, also known as nobelitis,[1] is a phenomenon where a Nobel Prize-winning scientist endorses or performs "research" in pseudoscientific areas in their later years, generally (though not always) after having won the esteemed prize for some legitimate scientific achievement.

rationalwiki.org

 

[Mingmar]

Judging from their chief EE's words ...

Just want to point out that he's not an EE. In the interview linked earlier he explains he's a technologist.

 

[D700]

Your argument is a bit like coming to the defense of ESS on a review here because some manufacturer stuck a 9038pro in a $20,000 DAC. Who’s talking about the substrates of this cable? I’m a bit confused about your motives in sharing this—I don’t think anyone is conflating Iconoclast with Belden or BJC.

Mr. Gareis attempted to hijack this independent, unbiased review from the start, and exposed himself to judgment by writing an eleven paragraph pile of audio woo in defense of his specious claims and predatory prices. Great, he uses reasonably-priced materials from reputable suppliers and adds a 1000% surcharge for his vision and the little card he ships with his cables. Noted.

My motives? Lol. Ok.

I’m a happy customer of BJC, ya got me.

 

[srkbear]

My motives? Lol. Ok.

I’m a happy customer of BJC, ya got me.

That’s great boss, it’s just not the topic. No worries, I don’t mean to instigate any conflict over it—I guess I mistakenly took your post as an apologia for Iconoclast and Gareis. You’re right, BJC makes great products. Peace.

 

[DonH56]

I reject the allegations of the member you’re responding to here, but I’m not sure what position you’re taking with this reply. First, this is a review of a relatively short patch cable, not a speaker cable. But are you honestly alleging that for the 2-3 feet of wire involved in connecting a DAC to an amp that the gauge of the wire is going to measure differently in meaningful terms? Amir’s null test demonstrated silence.

In fact, to my knowledge the only factor Amir has ever proven to influence the end result in his wire reviews has been length, which makes logical sense. Beyond what length of speaker wire do you consider gauge to become relevant (or measurable, if you like), assuming that we’re not choosing a few strands of wound copper as a baseline?

The allegation I read into his (her, whatever) response was that there was no measurable difference between the two cables. That is inaccurate and was the only point of my post.

He said to a subwoofer but I don't know if it is line or speaker level. Don't really see how it would matter for line levels. I agree my answer was ambiguous; brain fart -- couldn't imagine why you'd need 10 AWG for a line-level cable. As for the rest, my position is well-known here, I have spent enough time writing it up in various articles (linked in my signature), and I have no particular desire to waste more time in this train wreck.

 

[srkbear]

Fortunately science doesn't rely on appeals to authority or even the level of experience per se of any scientist, no matter how accomplished.

Everyone is human, everyone can become besotted with their own pet hypotheses or beliefs, including the best engineers and scientists. It's to weed out reliable information from this noise that science relies on evidence, peer review, replication and other forms of checking claims (when science is operating at it's best - and good engineering is an epistemic bedfellow).

In writing that, I'm not trying to pre-judge Galen's particular claim for the iconoclast cables. It would be true whether Amir found significant measurable differences or not. The implications of Amir's tests at this point, however, are a reminder of why science places the demands it does on claims.

Good points all. In Gareis’s case, I think he’s less besotted with his pet hypothesis than he is with his bank account (and hypothetical is surely the only way to describe the diatribe he sent to Amir, ‘cause it sure ain’t science).

We are fortunate to have instruments to measure the veracity of manufacturers’ claims; what seems to be lacking (and ineffectually discussed constantly) are rigorous experiential studies to root out these intangible X-factors so many claim are evident to the human ear beyond what the instruments show us.

And I think that it’s intentional that such studies aren’t pursued by this industry. First of all, they’re complex; for a prospective, randomized and controlled double-blind study of subjective endpoints to be statistically-significant, the sample sizes would likely need to be in the triple digits, and who’s going to pursue that, let alone pay for it? More importantly, it’s advantageous to the economy of the audiophile market that these studies don’t exist, because so many felonious brands profit from this idea that there are audible differences that measurements can’t assess.

But wow, if we were able to arrange such studies and finally put this issue to rest, wouldn’t that be something?

 

[srkbear]

The allegation I read into his (her, whatever) response was that there was no measurable difference between the two cables. That is inaccurate and was the only point of my post.

He said to a subwoofer but I don't know if it is line or speaker level. Don't really see how it would matter for line levels. I agree my answer was ambiguous; brain fart -- couldn't imagine why you'd need 10 AWG for a line-level cable. As for the rest, my position is well-known here, I have spent enough time writing it up in various articles (linked in my signature), and I have no particular desire to waste more time in this train wreck.

Thanks, you just gave me reason to go check them out! Appreciate the thoughtful response.

 

[steve f]

And here I thought XLR interconnects needed flexible, shielded wiring with durable jackets. Add in connectors that can take some abuse, and fit well into related equipment.
I’ve been keeping my spares in an orange five gallon bucket. Perhaps I should scrap the WBC, and change out the bucket to a different color.

 

[amirm]

I wonder if someone is pretending to be Galen. It was a very goofy response from one engineer to another.

It is definitely him. It is part of my communication thread with the company.

 

[pseudoid]

Viagra blue would have been a more appropriate color for these Beldens, with double-digit bend radius!

 

[DWI]

Nobody who can afford expensive luxury audio gear is going to be seen dead with a WBC or similar interconnect or speaker lead - no cachet or status enhancement with his mates I'm afraid.

David, rather presumptuous. I’ll happily admit I use what you call luxury audio gear, although I don’t think “luxury” describes a handful of nondescript boxes sitting in a cupboard. I personally use a long £15 fibre optic, $10 Blue Jeans CAT6a and a £5 usb cable. Analogue are a basic Jelco DIN cable and 4m speaker cables that were a p/x a fraction of this Iconoclast cable.

I only have a couple of friends who have good stereo systems and if we ever discuss anything it is usually what vinyl we’ve bought recently. We have only very rarely discussed equipment and I can’t remember ever discussing cables.

The reality in the UK and EU at least is that most high end audio is still sold through dealers, due to geography and commercial laws that do not have a parallel in the USA. The vast majority of the customers of dealers I’ve spoken to never look at forums, they buy audio to listen to music, not for bragging rights.

The dealer I started at in my 'audio virginity' nearly fifty years ago is still trading (under very different ownership now I believe) as a posh high end 'salon' in London's West End. Look at the UK prices for Transparent Audio if you want to see a popular 'cheaper' high end cable brand...

Also very presumptuous. The business changed ownership about 12 years ago following a catastrophic flood and needed major rebuilding. It was recently refurbished, taking advantage of Covid closure, and was done by someone in the business, who is an interior designer. It is pretty typical for the area.

Moreover, being primarily a retail business, their website does not include everything they sell, far from it, whatever your budget they will accommodate you, and they sell plenty of stuff cheaper than things recommended here, including budget cables. Whether you are spending £500 or £1,000,000, you get the same level of service.

Even though I read a few online forums, my audio has always been purchased retail and not based on reviews or what anyone says online. I’m glad I don’t know anyone who wants to show me their audio cables.

 

[Thunder22]

Another pointless cable measurement/discussion?