Beginner DAC/AMP recommendation for HD 600 Sennheiser's

[AudioBozo]

Good day,

I will start off with an apology for what is a question that has been asked multiple times over the years, I am just looking for a modern recommendation so I can make an up to date purchasing decision. These 600's arrived 14 days ago and I have been living on audio forums since looking at equipment from all different manufacturers and price points and I somehow feel even more lost than when I started. In an attempt to not look lazier than I likely already do my current has research brought me to:

- Fiio K7 (Non-BT)
- Topping DX3 Pro+
- JDS Labs Atom Stack 2
- JDS Labs Element 3 (Single power adapter is a win over the stack)
- SMSL DL200
- RME ADI-2 DAC (No longer actually considering this, just letting you know how lost in the sauce I have been)
- iFi Zen DAC 3
- E70 / L70 Stack (Actually ordered this but cancelled, more on that below)
- (Anything from Amir's recommendations, this helps narrow things down but my inherent poor decision doesn't)

My use case is quite literally to plug my headphones in via their 3.5mm / quarter inch jack and hook the DAC up to my PC as a source. I am UK based so JDS Labs / Schiit would be looking at import fees, doesn't mean they are off the table just something to consider. I have actually considered returning the phones over this, I am not a great decision maker at the best of times so to call this a 'stressful' undertaking would be an understatement! I wish more emphasis was placed on this than what headphones to consider, as that was a cakewalk compared to this haha. I am in this situation because my Hyper X Cloud 2 cans blew last week after 7 years so I thought I would treat myself ironically.

Ideal requirements:
- Low idle/standby power consumption for always on operation (Single power adapter is also a win in this regard)
- Able to power the HD 600's to ear damaging levels (not because I want to just for headroom sake)
- Works driver free
- Will not get too hot with extended use (generally at my desk 14 hours a day)

I had ordered an E70 / L70 stack that I cancelled on because it just seemed insane to fork out literally double the price of my headphones on an AMP/DAC, I knew I would need the additional hardware but I had no clue how big the market is, in hindsight I would have made sure I had both the AMP/DAC and headphone choices prepared in advance.

I have heard all sorts from 'Bottlehead cracks' and 'HD 600's scale with more power', the kicker is I don't even have a reference point for what I want which was the whole point of getting the 600's in the first place. I just need something that works, and will not leave me wanting for more (and trust me after this rabbit hole I think I will stay faaaarr away from audio for a long time).

My budget, doesn't really exist. The only reason I say that is it would be the limit of practicality, which I believe to be much lower than what you can easily spend. However anything at or below the price I paid for the headphones (£270) would be ideal.

Many thanks for reading,
Hopefully ASR can serve as the last bastion in the hole I have dug for myself,

 

[Chester]

Sorry, I haven’t read the whole post due to time, but think I get the gist.

For £40, why not try the recently reviewed Fosi DS2. Think Amir tested it with HD600 and it performed well. Just an idea.

 

[AudioBozo]

Hey Chester,

Wow, that really is fantastic. At the very least I would be able to use the cans without needing to make a more commited purchase when I am undecided.
Appreciate you taking the time, as this was completely off my radar.

 

[AudioBozo]

Seems to be going for closer to £69.99 at the moment so a bit less of a steal if I was to treat it as a stop gap but a consideration none the less.

 

[Roland68]

Good day,

I will start off with an apology for what is a question that has been asked multiple times over the years, I am just looking for a modern recommendation so I can make an up to date purchasing decision. These 600's arrived 14 days ago and I have been living on audio forums since looking at equipment from all different manufacturers and price points and I somehow feel even more lost than when I started. In an attempt to not look lazier than I likely already do my current has research brought me to:

- Fiio K7 (Non-BT)
- Topping DX3 Pro+
- JDS Labs Atom Stack 2
- JDS Labs Element 3 (Single power adapter is a win over the stack)
- SMSL DL200
- RME ADI-2 DAC (No longer actually considering this, just letting you know how lost in the sauce I have been)
- iFi Zen DAC 3
- E70 / L70 Stack (Actually ordered this but cancelled, more on that below)
- (Anything from Amir's recommendations, this helps narrow things down but my inherent poor decision doesn't)

My use case is quite literally to plug my headphones in via their 3.5mm / quarter inch jack and hook the DAC up to my PC as a source. I am UK based so JDS Labs / Schiit would be looking at import fees, doesn't mean they are off the table just something to consider. I have actually considered returning the phones over this, I am not a great decision maker at the best of times so to call this a 'stressful' undertaking would be an understatement! I wish more emphasis was placed on this than what headphones to consider, as that was a cakewalk compared to this haha. I am in this situation because my Hyper X Cloud 2 cans blew last week after 7 years so I thought I would treat myself ironically.

Ideal requirements:
- Low idle/standby power consumption for always on operation (Single power adapter is also a win in this regard)
- Able to power the HD 600's to ear damaging levels (not because I want to just for headroom sake)
- Works driver free
- Will not get too hot with extended use (generally at my desk 14 hours a day)

I had ordered an E70 / L70 stack that I cancelled on because it just seemed insane to fork out literally double the price of my headphones on an AMP/DAC, I knew I would need the additional hardware but I had no clue how big the market is, in hindsight I would have made sure I had both the AMP/DAC and headphone choices prepared in advance.

I have heard all sorts from 'Bottlehead cracks' and 'HD 600's scale with more power', the kicker is I don't even have a reference point for what I want which was the whole point of getting the 600's in the first place. I just need something that works, and will not leave me wanting for more (and trust me after this rabbit hole I think I will stay faaaarr away from audio for a long time).

My budget, doesn't really exist. The only reason I say that is it would be the limit of practicality, which I believe to be much lower than what you can easily spend. However anything at or below the price I paid for the headphones (£270) would be ideal.

Many thanks for reading,
Hopefully ASR can serve as the last bastion in the hole I have dug for myself,

You can see if you can get the Sabaj A20h on Amazon.
Real symmetrical HPA, including relay-based volume control with absolute channel equality, remote control, display, symmetrical input and real symmetrical output with a maximum of 4.7 watts at 32 ohms. Plus a good and powerful switching power supply and not just a cheap transformer.
Amirm tested it and confirmed its good performance.
Sabaj A20h Balanced Headphone Amp Review
For around €100-120 or less, in my opinion it is an absolute bargain and has the best price-performance ratio on the market.

A simple and inexpensive DAC would be the SMSL PO100 AK, or SU-1, Topping E30 II, or symmetrical Topping D50 III, but there are many others.

 

[BDWoody]

I have been living on audio forums since looking at equipment from all different manufacturers and price points and I somehow feel even more lost than when I started.

Welcome!

Glad you found us. Be ready to climb that learning curve so you aren't confused by all the nonsense out there!

 

[AudioBozo]

You can see if you can get the Sabaj A20h on Amazon.
Real symmetrical HPA, including relay-based volume control with absolute channel equality, remote control, display, symmetrical input and real symmetrical output with a maximum of 4.7 watts at 32 ohms. Plus a good and powerful switching power supply and not just a cheap transformer.
Amirm tested it and confirmed its good performance.
Sabaj A20h Balanced Headphone Amp Review
For around €100-120 or less, in my opinion it is an absolute bargain and has the best price-performance ratio on the market.

A simple and inexpensive DAC would be the SMSL PO100 AK, or SU-1, Topping E30 II, or symmetrical Topping D50 III, but there are many others.

Thanks for the suggestion! Not currently on sale in the UK however, it has a product page though.

 

[AudioBozo]

You can see if you can get the Sabaj A20h on Amazon.
Real symmetrical HPA, including relay-based volume control with absolute channel equality, remote control, display, symmetrical input and real symmetrical output with a maximum of 4.7 watts at 32 ohms. Plus a good and powerful switching power supply and not just a cheap transformer.
Amirm tested it and confirmed its good performance.
Sabaj A20h Balanced Headphone Amp Review
For around €100-120 or less, in my opinion it is an absolute bargain and has the best price-performance ratio on the market.

A simple and inexpensive DAC would be the SMSL PO100 AK, or SU-1, Topping E30 II, or symmetrical Topping D50 III, but there are many others.

Also worth mentioning it doesn't need to be cheap, just practical for the use case as working to a budget may make it harder to suggest things.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi
Luckily, cheap (inexpensive) doesn't mean low performance. Simple things, like the Topping DX1, or SMSL C200 are very good indeed.

Alternatively, have a look at the Review Index on this site for recommended Headphone Amps and take your pick based on features. The SMSL C200 gives you good options for adding active speakers later on if you want to, as well as being a headphone amp. Too much choice, but base it on sound reviews - no subjective ones - and you will be fine.

 

[AudioBozo]

Hi
Luckily, cheap (inexpensive) doesn't mean low performance. Simple things, like the Topping DX1, or SMSL C200 are very good indeed.

Alternatively, have a look at the Review Index on this site for recommended Headphone Amps and take your pick based on features. The SMSL C200 gives you good options for adding active speakers later on if you want to, as well as being a headphone amp. Too much choice, but base it on sound reviews - no subjective ones - and you will be fine.

Hey Jeremy!,

Thanks for the reply, does the SMSL C200 have anything over the SMSL DL200 in regards to my use case? HD 600's that is.

 

[AudioBozo]

I noted that in amirs review he mentioned he was satisfied with the 650's performance. Believe the 600's have slightly lower sensitivity but probably about the same.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hey Jeremy!,

Thanks for the reply, does the SMSL C200 have anything over the SMSL DL200 in regards to my use case? HD 600's that is.

Unlikely - pick the one you like, with the features you like and the best deal you can get

 

[Chester]

Seems to be going for closer to £69.99 at the moment so a bit less of a steal if I was to treat it as a stop gap but a consideration none the less.

If you buy direct from Fosi and they are still honouring their discount code in the thread (if not I’m sure if you reach out they would, seem a good bunch). It’s about £36. Mine arrives today.

 

[AnalogSteph]

The irony among all this is that HD600s actually are quite easy to live with. Give them 2-3 Vrms and they'll go loud enough for everyone (those not semi-deaf and/or with a penchant for dynamic classical recordings should need less), output impedance below 47 ohms is low enough, and there is hardly anything that considers driving 300 ohms a challenge. I normally use a JDS Labs Atom Amp+ on the output of a trusty Dell Latitude E6330, but while on vacation I used the output "barefoot" (fairly low output impedance but the usual 1ish Vrms max), and honestly that was completely fine. Granted, you won't be digging into the noise floor of said dynamic classical recordings as much, and there is some more power-on noise, but otherwise I could not discern a difference. Arguably running the thing at 192 kHz had more of an effect.

If things are going to remain plugged in and perhaps protected from accidental pulling, a fancy dongle is absolutely worth considering. A more traditional unit would be more robust.

 

[AudioBozo]

The irony among all this is that HD600s actually are quite easy to live with. Give them 2-3 Vrms and they'll go loud enough for everyone (those not semi-deaf and/or with a penchant for dynamic classical recordings should need less), output impedance below 47 ohms is low enough, and there is hardly anything that considers driving 300 ohms a challenge. I normally use a JDS Labs Atom Amp+ on the output of a trusty Dell Latitude E6330, but while on vacation I used the output "barefoot" (fairly low output impedance but the usual 1ish Vrms max), and honestly that was completely fine. Granted, you won't be digging into the noise floor of said dynamic classical recordings as much, and there is some more power-on noise, but otherwise I could not discern a difference. Arguably running the thing at 192 kHz had more of an effect.

If things are going to remain plugged in and perhaps protected from accidental pulling, a fancy dongle is absolutely worth considering. A more traditional unit would be more robust.

Thanks for the input Steph!

I am currently looking at the C200, it looks suitable for my needs. I like the power efficiency of SMSL, I had been in contact with JDS Labs regarding the Atom 2 stack and they said it uses 10W idle at the wall, which for an always on system isn't ideal, plus 2 wall warts. SMSL 0.5w idle is much better in this regard.

Only thing is I am careful about installing drivers for niche products, the USB 1.1 connection on the C200 will work fine for 24bit 96Khz. Everything I listen to is on YouTube/Spotify anyways so shouldn't be a concern there.

There is someone in the 'Headphones' discord with the HD 600 and C200 so will see what there 2 cents is on the combo and if happy will likely pull the trigger.

While you are here, what would constitute a fancy dongle to yourself? The Fosi recommended above? Seems suitable specs wise, but not so much money wise unless you meant fancy in the context of specs.

 

[Roland68]

Thanks for the input Steph!

I am currently looking at the C200, it looks suitable for my needs. I like the power efficiency of SMSL, I had been in contact with JDS Labs regarding the Atom 2 stack and they said it uses 10W idle at the wall, which for an always on system isn't ideal, plus 2 wall warts. SMSL 0.5w idle is much better in this regard.

Only thing is I am careful about installing drivers for niche products, the USB 1.1 connection on the C200 will work fine for 24bit 96Khz. Everything I listen to is on YouTube/Spotify anyways so shouldn't be a concern there.

There is someone in the 'Headphones' discord with the HD 600 and C200 so will see what there 2 cents is on the combo and if happy will likely pull the trigger.

While you are here, what would constitute a fancy dongle to yourself? The Fosi recommended above? Seems suitable specs wise, but not so much money wise unless you meant fancy in the context of specs.

The Qudelix-5K is almost unbeatable. With USB DAC, 20 band equalizer with multiple memory locations and HPA with SE and balanced output.
Maybe you don't need anything else.

 

[AudioBozo]

The Qudelix-5K is almost unbeatable. With USB DAC, 20 band equalizer with multiple memory locations and HPA with SE and balanced output.
Maybe you don't need anything else.

Not sure if good or bad deal but I just grabbed the SMSL C200 for £140. Will see how I get on with that juice wise.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Only thing is I am careful about installing drivers for niche products, the USB 1.1 connection on the C200 will work fine for 24bit 96Khz. Everything I listen to is on YouTube/Spotify anyways so shouldn't be a concern there.

I get where you're coming from but I do have to wonder how they're implementing these UAC1 modes. I thought UAC1 only supports isochronous operation.

The C200 being based on an XMOS chip makes me think Thesycon drivers (they also provide the generic Windows UAC2 driver), so I'd think these should be pretty safe.

Not sure if good or bad deal but I just grabbed the SMSL C200 for £140. Will see how I get on with that juice wise.

Going by its specs, it can dish out over 6 Vrms in high gain mode. That's plenty.

Especially if you commonly find yourself using 44.1 kHz, I would recommend using digital filter setting F6 (should be linear phase fast rolloff), assuming they haven't shuffled them around since Amir's review. F4 (minimum phase fast rolloff) is another good one, at least for listening - measurements would probably show up the variable group delay inherent to a minimum phase (IIR) filter. These are a good compromise between in-band flatness and alias suppression (basically, full attenuation is only reached by about 24.1 kHz, but you'll find that any aliases up there could only come from the 20-22.05 kHz range where precious little is going on in actual music to begin with). Should you decide to use good-quality software upsampling to at least 88.2 kHz, you can use one of the slow filters instead, like F5.

 

[AudioBozo]

I get where you're coming from but I do have to wonder how they're implementing these UAC1 modes. I thought UAC1 only supports isochronous operation.

The C200 being based on an XMOS chip makes me think Thesycon drivers (they also provide the generic Windows UAC2 driver), so I'd think these should be pretty safe.

Going by its specs, it can dish out over 6 Vrms in high gain mode. That's plenty.

Especially if you commonly find yourself using 44.1 kHz, I would recommend using digital filter setting F6 (should be linear phase fast rolloff), assuming they haven't shuffled them around since Amir's review. F4 (minimum phase fast rolloff) is another good one, at least for listening - measurements would probably show up the variable group delay inherent to a minimum phase (IIR) filter. These are a good compromise between in-band flatness and alias suppression (basically, full attenuation is only reached by about 24.1 kHz, but you'll find that any aliases up there could only come from the 20-22.05 kHz range where precious little is going on in actual music to begin with). Should you decide to use good-quality software upsampling to at least 88.2 kHz, you can use one of the slow filters instead, like F5.

Cogs are whirring so there is a bit for me to unpack there:

1. Regarding UAC1, I am oblivious to any potential ramifications of using isochronous operation. Anything to keep an eye out for there?
2. Driver situation I will look further into, if I have reason to believe it is holding the unit back in anyway. Since it is designed to work with consoles where 1.1 is the only available option it must at the very least be designed with this use case in mind. Driverless nature is even used as a marketing bonus, although this is pretty standard I have heard of some Fiio units requiring drivers to operate correctly at all, but thats been a mixed bag of reading stuff.
3. Thanks for the heads up on the digital filters, I had intended to play and then use on the default but given I will be listening at 44.1KHz will spend some time on F6 provided it isn't different as you say. I did think for a sec after I purchased if the Aoshida C200 was somehow different at all but they definitely have the same DAC etc, my heart went a bit at first.
4. In regards to upsampling, I have read a little bit and it sounds interesting. Seems to offset some of the job of the external DAC to allow similar results with less aggressive filtering? is this more of a budget min/max method or something you find people doing across the spectrum of low/high end?

Will have a good 30 days to test it out once arrived so will give it the full whirl, have heard most issues can be related to Bluetooth which to be honest is a give or take to me. For a wired headphone experience at a desk I fail to see why it would be beneficial, who knows though down the line it may come in handy as a nicety.

Thanks for taking the time with me, I am honestly surprised at the amount of engagement on the forum. For me audio will likely end up being a set it and forget it until I next need an upgrade so the fact there are people with far mightier setups than mine helping out the little guy is just magic really.

 

[AudioBozo]

Update,

The C200 arrived and after figuring out how to swap it to USB 1.1 (was looking in Windows instead of the amp) and realising that H and L means 'Headphones' and 'Line out' not high and low gain (was wondering why it only worked in high gain...) I had audio! And truth be told, I am nowhere near as impressed as I had thought I would be.

I have two weeks to test the headphones and see how I feel, everything sounds a kind of flat to me. I really do wish my Hyper X Cloud 2's hadn't kicked the bucket so I could compare, its likely I am just used to a more coloured sound however even in that department what is there isn't hugely impressive to me. Everything seems a bit distant which may be the open back nature but even what is there doesn't sound very detailed.

Granted, this is Spotify/YouTube however even so I expected more. I am generally pretty easily impressed given my roots with headphones so far.

I had the pleasure of reading this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/43f2l7/hd600_very_boring

And I have read something I had already read before in that post, "What do you expect you have a ****** amp". Now I can pretty much tell what the response would be to this given the community I am posting in so it seems these headphones may just not be for me. Very early days as I have only had the last hour with them so will spend as much time as I can over the next two weeks to see if I return them.

As for the AMP there is definitely enough power on low gain, I wouldnt want to go any higher than 50.

Either way may eat these words, quite the transformation would need to take place inside my head I feel. At the very least I think you would all agree that any opinions I have on the sound is in fact on the headphones as opposed to the AMP/DAC, not like I have other equipment to verify can only point to the existing tests

There is a DP setting which defaults to 4 but no clue what it really does, clock stability and input tolerance according to the manual.