Beating a dead horse.

[hardisj]

I've been in this hobby for a while and testing for about 10-12 years with various gear. In that time I've seen a lot of good and bad. I've learned a lot. Not just about the hobby but also about people (on the internet). I've had all sorts of insults thrown at me. I've seen people argue topics that I don't personally feel are worth discussion but my ignorance >> knowledge so I keep my mouth shut. I've also spent days arguing things with people that I look back now on and realize the time spent didn't benefit me in any way, shape or form... I was simply arguing with some dude on the internet who I haven't had a discussion with since.

I say all that to make this point ...
In the past month I've seen a lot of this kind of thing here and I'm not sure all of it is entirely helpful. Much less healthy.
Sometimes you have to sit back at an argument/discussion you're in and ask yourself: How am I benefiting from this? Am I learning something new? Am I teaching? Does this discussion have a legitimate impact on my knowledge and how I go about my daily life with this knowledge?

I think when you take the time to evaluate the situation it is easy to walk away from discussions and still be left satisfied. Even the ones where you were so headstrong, you were willing to drown in your viewpoints.

I am by no means preaching from a pulpit; I still post snippy things now and again or let myself get sucked in to the seventh layer of an e-argument that I regret having wasted time on later. I am just offering some advice that maybe next time we go to make a post we take some time to consider what it is we are about to say (type) and whether or not it is for a good reason. And maybe I'll come back and read this post again a few times in the future.

- Erin

 

[Apesbrain]

For many of the same reasons you mention, I pretty much limit my participation only to "technical support" requests anymore.

 

[Doodski]

I've been in this hobby for a while and testing for about 10-12 years with various gear. In that time I've seen a lot of good and bad. I've learned a lot. Not just about the hobby but also about people (on the internet). I've had all sorts of insults thrown at me. I've seen people argue topics that I don't personally feel are worth discussion but my ignorance >> knowledge so I keep my mouth shut. I've also spent days arguing things with people that I look back now on and realize the time spent didn't benefit me in any way, shape or form... I was simply arguing with some dude on the internet who I haven't had a discussion with since.

I say all that to make this point ...
In the past month I've seen a lot of this kind of thing here and I'm not sure all of it is entirely helpful. Much less healthy.
Sometimes you have to sit back at an argument/discussion you're in and ask yourself: How am I benefiting from this? Am I learning something new? Am I teaching? Does this discussion have a legitimate impact on my knowledge and how I go about my daily life with this knowledge?

I think when you take the time to evaluate the situation it is easy to walk away from discussions and still be left satisfied. Even the ones where you were so headstrong, you were willing to drown in your viewpoints.

I am by no means preaching from a pulpit; I still post snippy things now and again or let myself get sucked in to the seventh layer of an e-argument that I regret having wasted time on later. I am just offering some advice that maybe next time we go to make a post we take some time to consider what it is we are about to say (type) and whether or not it is for a good reason. And maybe I'll come back and read this post again a few times in the future.

- Erin

I learned something very similar to what you say by reading the news and the sometimes horrible commentary that comes with it. What a education

 

[Thomas savage]

I've been in this hobby for a while and testing for about 10-12 years with various gear. In that time I've seen a lot of good and bad. I've learned a lot. Not just about the hobby but also about people (on the internet). I've had all sorts of insults thrown at me. I've seen people argue topics that I don't personally feel are worth discussion but my ignorance >> knowledge so I keep my mouth shut. I've also spent days arguing things with people that I look back now on and realize the time spent didn't benefit me in any way, shape or form... I was simply arguing with some dude on the internet who I haven't had a discussion with since.

I say all that to make this point ...
In the past month I've seen a lot of this kind of thing here and I'm not sure all of it is entirely helpful. Much less healthy.
Sometimes you have to sit back at an argument/discussion you're in and ask yourself: How am I benefiting from this? Am I learning something new? Am I teaching? Does this discussion have a legitimate impact on my knowledge and how I go about my daily life with this knowledge?

I think when you take the time to evaluate the situation it is easy to walk away from discussions and still be left satisfied. Even the ones where you were so headstrong, you were willing to drown in your viewpoints.

I am by no means preaching from a pulpit; I still post snippy things now and again or let myself get sucked in to the seventh layer of an e-argument that I regret having wasted time on later. I am just offering some advice that maybe next time we go to make a post we take some time to consider what it is we are about to say (type) and whether or not it is for a good reason. And maybe I'll come back and read this post again a few times in the future.

- Erin

Random humans on the internet don't generally aspire to much more than " see me " " recognise me " " make me feel superior" " confirm me" .

I think everyone should read your post and ask themselves the tough questions it poses.

What you can't do is make everyone be that way all the time , it only takes one or two and the discussion is off on a unhelpful tangent.

To add to all that men in particular are territorial and egotistical.

if you think about it it's a miracle any decent discussion happens at all. Certainly looking around at other social media platforms only serves to reinforce that idea.

 

[dshreter]

I appreciate those that are willing to fight the good fight. There are a lot of fallacies in audio that get repeated over and over and over, and I've seen very intelligent people spend a LOT of good money in a misguided way. So while a lot of argument might seem like painful repetition, changing "common knowledge" is like steering the titanic, only it takes years to accomplish.

To this day, the internet and audio shops are chock full of people talking about the sound of their DACs, and how it transformed the sound of their system. Most well meaning and intelligent audiophiles believe this to be the case, and actually think they are well informed to even know that DACs are a thing that can be purchased of high or low quality.

So it's not for nothing - a lot of this argument slowly but surely will change the "common knowledge" to be more informed, and that will change buyer behavior, and that will change manufacturer behavior over time for the better.

 

[Berwhale]

I think this is relevant: https://jamesclear.com/why-facts-dont-change-minds

 

[Deleted member 9286]

Great post @hardisj . It’s a shame as I actually think this forum would grow a lot quicker if some of that stuff you mentioned was dialled back a bit. Not that there’s anything wrong with the current size but I personally would love to see this place become the go-to place for newbies starting out in HiFi so they don’t get sucked into some of the more poisonous forums that are designed to extract money and generate anxiety.

I know when I first came here, I actually dismissed the place due to some of the knowledge snobbery and smarminess that seemed to be common place. Over time my own search for knowledge kept leading back here and I learned that although there are some ‘interesting’ characters, most are harmless and lots of people are incredibly helpful and knowledgeable.

As a new lurker, this place can be quite off-putting though, which is a shame.

 

[Doodski]

I learned that although there are some ‘interesting’ characters, most are harmless and lots of people are incredibly helpful and knowledgeable.

People are people and come in all sorts of flavors a few not very appealing. I just expect "stuff" now and little surprises me.

 

[Tks]

I've also spent days arguing things with people that I look back now on and realize the time spent didn't benefit me in any way, shape or form... I was simply arguing with some dude on the internet who I haven't had a discussion with since.

One important aspect here, is if this was being done in a public setting, or private conversation channels. If it was in private, it's up to you to decide if benefit only is due to be yours solely, or are you doing it in reciprocation, or with martyrdom in mind where only the other party benefits.

If it's a public setting, then beating a dead horse isn't tiring at all. For me personally, if it's evident this is someone who came to the discussion with strict goals in mind, then I'm perfectly fine dedicating the conversation to all on-lookers. So they see for themselves who has more merit and in what respect.

If it's a discussion between rationality with respect to facts, then; I find it almost a passionate pleasure for others to see things like charlatans exposed and relentless even after being exposed. All their points addressed, and their silly attempts at then self destructing the conversation...

In the same way I wish someone was there for me (and they were eventually after I got wrung out by the lunatics) when I got into a new hobby, to explain to me things in ways that follow basic tenants of sense. I hope someone sees one of my discussions (of the sort alluded to in this whole topic, ones where dead horses are beaten) as me hopefully setting them up for taking a skeptical outlook on anyone a bit too eager with their more than questionable advice and methods of ascertaining truth perhaps.

I find it almost a numbers game at this point. Even if the dead horse has been beaten by a few, if no one sees this - then the pratical results are as if it never happened. So sometimes beating a dead horse even harsher in hopes of garnering more eyes is justified in my opinion, seeing as how advertising industries aren't the cheapest things to contract for educational purposes no less.