Battle of S/PDIF vs USB: which is better?

[Rockfella]

KOOL, Yes it was a ground loop hum, that's why I said to use Optical, coaxial would just switch the ground connection from the USB to the Coax shield. You might try a USB to Optical converter and see if it sounds OK to you.
https://www.amazon.com/LiNKFOR-Coax...o+Optical+Audio+Adapter&qid=1605679667&sr=8-5

Thanks! The thing you recommended looks like my huckleberry but I am in India. Have to try Ali Express. Amazon won't ship it here.
EDIT: Checked. No way to get it to here. Ali not shipping this to India.

 

[Rockfella]

How are you doing that on toslink? I can't go above 92khz.

No, the motherboard had the outputs from the onboard chip.
I have no problem doing 192khz over toslink here, jitter is handled by the ASRC reclocking in the DC-1

 

[solderdude]

Toslink works almost guaranteed up to 96kHz/24bit but 192kHz is a crap-shoot.
Some actually work on 192, others do not or intermittent or with ticks etc.

 

[Rockfella]

Working for me till 96. 192 ticks yes. In other words I got rid of ALL NOISE using toslink but now my K5 Pro is limited to 92kHz and I have a Xonar DX installed in my PC just to give me optical out.

Toslink works almost guaranteed up to 96kHz/24bit but 192kHz is a crap-shoot.
Some actually work on 192, others do not or intermittent or with ticks etc.

 

[Sal1950]

Mine works at 192 but the cable must be kept short. If I go over say 1 meter it drops out.
No problems at 96k

 

[Rockfella]

How about I get this:

https://www.fiio.co.in/products/fiio-d03k-digital-audio-analog-converter

Use the Xonar DX (for SPDIF out) and this for RCA to monitors and give the K5 Pro to my bro?

Mine works at 192 but the cable must be kept short. If I go over say 1 meter it drops out.
No problems at 96k

 

[Rockfella]

Facing frequent BSODs now...

 

[Sal1950]

Facing frequent BSODs now...

 

[jockel77]

I had luck to ge an used D10 from ebay vor 67 EUR yesterday. Hope it'll arrive soon
In the neighbour thread using D10 as USB/SPDIF converter only (+ separate DAC with SPDIF in - in my case modded AK4396 DAC) I've read about problems with high samplerates using an 5m long USB cable to connect the D10.
I also have problems with using foobar WASAPI plugin with higher sampling rates. My CM6631A USB/SPDIF converter supports up to 192khz but when using WASAPI only 16-bit/44khz signal is played. Each time trying to playback higher bit/samplingrates, foobar/WASAPI tells me "unrecoverable playback error". When using Asio4all output driver in foobar music with higher sampling-/bitrates do play well.
So I'm wondering if this problems are the result of a 5m long USB cable.

Is it better to go for a shorter USB cable (1m) to connect D10 and then go out with a long (5m) coax cable for SPDIF connection?

 

[Veri]

@jockel77 using WASAPI event by chance? Try Push mode, event is famously "bugged" in foobar2000. Otherwise, if ASIO4ALL works... might as well just use that

 

[Rockfella]

I had luck to ge an used D10 from ebay vor 67 EUR yesterday. Hope it'll arrive soon
In the neighbour thread using D10 as USB/SPDIF converter only (+ separate DAC with SPDIF in - in my case modded AK4396 DAC) I've read about problems with high samplerates using an 5m long USB cable to connect the D10.
I also have problems with using foobar WASAPI plugin with higher sampling rates. My CM6631A USB/SPDIF converter supports up to 192khz but when using WASAPI only 16-bit/44khz signal is played. Each time trying to playback higher bit/samplingrates, foobar/WASAPI tells me "unrecoverable playback error". When using Asio4all output driver in foobar music with higher sampling-/bitrates do play well.
So I'm wondering if this problems are the result of a 5m long USB cable.

Is it better to go for a shorter USB cable (1m) to connect D10 and then go out with a long (5m) coax cable for SPDIF connection?

Get rid of that 5 meter cable anyway.

 

[jockel77]

WASAPI event is the only mode playback with foobar works. Each other mode leads to unrecoverable playback error.
I don't trust Asio4all because it might emulate higher bitrates only. I'm not sure about that.
So if I understand you right, WASAPI should work in each case.
Maybe that's a hint of something being wrong with my too long USB connection.
Is it better to go for a shorter USB cable and a longer SPDIF coax cable in general?

 

[Rockfella]

WASAPI event is the only mode playback with foobar works. Each other mode leads to unrecoverable playback error.
I don't trust Asio4all because it might emulate higher bitrates only. I'm not sure about that.
So if I understand you right, WASAPI should work in each case.
Maybe that's a hint of something being wrong with my too long USB connection.
Is it better to go for a shorter USB cable and a longer SPDIF coax cable in general?

Short cables all types whenever possible.

 

[Rockfella]

Ok. Tested with monitors connected to Xonar directly (3.5 mm to RVA). Same humm. Simple: I have to use toslink to avoid USB noise simple.

 

[jockel77]

I really would like to go for shorter cables ... but the distance between my PC and DAC + Stereo components is 5m away.
For my understanding I need an USB cable with better performance - because the one I use is a really cheap transparent one (ebay 3 EUR).
Even amazons basic USB cable should have a better performance compared to mine.
I've chosen this cable and will give it a try. If it won't solve my problem, I'll give it back to amazon.
https://www.amazon.de/ROLINE-Kabel-Stecker-HiSpeed-Verbindungskabel/dp/B004OXW5AC?th=1

 

[MTVhike]

I'm looking for a device which converts one digital format to another digital format - no DAC. For my current setup, input could be HDIM or USB (from my laptop computer, but that hardware will surely be upgraded). Output could be Toslink (optical) or Spdif (coaxial). Are there certain formats/data rates which some of these formats can't handle? The most difficult I have heard about and am interested in is DSD256 (or 512) 5.1 multichannel. Most of the devices I see include DACs and I assume the limitations are with the DAC, not the data conversion. Any ideas?

 

[Rockfella]

FINAL:
Xonar DX > Toslink > K5 Pro > Kali Audio LP6.

Will use occasionally : USB to K5 Pro > Kali Audio LP 6 (USB cable not connected right now as the humm is very strong even with the K5 Pro off!

Seems like I will use Toslink most of the time for now. I am at 24/96000 for almost everything. All good

 

[nhatlam96]

I have trouble with this following misunderstanding.

From this thread we learn that USB is cleaner than TOSLINK, because

USB is superior, since the DAC has its own clock rather than chasing the input.

there was no case where USB was worse than S/PDIF. Indeed the reverse was true in that S/PDIF was noisier in some DACs.

@amirm measurements of Topping E30 reflect the superiority of USB, where USB performed cleaner than TOSLINK by 0,7185 dB.

USB average 112,293 dB.

Toslink average 111,5745 dB.

However, in @JohnYang1997 measurements of Topping E30 the TOSLINK actually performed better than USB by 0,337 dB.

USB average 113,2895dB

TOSLINK average 113,6265dB

One case concludes that USB is superior, while the other case concludes that TOSLINK is superior, despite both measurement sets referenced from Topping E30. How is that possible?
From a technical standpoint, I find that contradicting.

 

[Veri]

@amirm measurements of Topping E30 reflect the superiority of USB, where USB performed cleaner than TOSLINK by 0,7185 dB.
USB average 112,293 dB.
Toslink average 111,5745 dB.

However, in @JohnYang1997 measurements of Topping E30 the TOSLINK actually performed better than USB by 0,337 dB.
USB average 113,2895dB
TOSLINK average 113,6265dB

Less than 1dB... these changes are absolutely negligible. They could be simply run-to-run variances. NO real-world difference.

Check out this review of an USB isolator:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/singxer-uip-1-usb-isolator-review.10982/
the difference in SINAD is a whopping 8dB. I own this thing. Do you reckon it makes for an audible change? I tried it and listening, for the life of me, I can't hear any change whatsoever. So if you think half a dB of sinad performance will make an audible difference, you're in for disappointment

 

[nhatlam96]

Less than 1dB... these changes are absolutely negligible. They could be simply run-to-run variances. NO real-world difference.

Check out this review of an USB isolator:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/singxer-uip-1-usb-isolator-review.10982/
the difference in SINAD is a whopping 8dB. I own this thing. Do you reckon it makes for an audible change? I tried it and listening, for the life of my I can't hear any change whatsoever. So if you think half a dB of sinad performance will make an audible difference, you're in for disappointment

No man, I am not worried about the audible difference, because its already well above 16bit and 96db. I am just worried about the technical contradiction.