Battle of RCA Cables: Mogami, Amazon, Monoprice

[Ropeburn]

Ah, yes, but don't we have to use "special" solder? ;-)

That's easy. Just use "silver" solder. It usually is like 0.5% silver or something, surely that must improve conductivity TREMENDOUSLY. That's what they say!

 

[egellings]

Hi
i haven't
but when I was a kid ,i bought my first hifi and i saved money for the cables , in short i bought cheap cables
as soon as i bought outstanding cables , i could not image ,well good the expansive cable can do a huge difference
but i was a kid and it did happen many years ago

When you'r a kid, your imagination more strongly influences your perception of the world than when you are an adult.

 

[Labjr]

The original Wonder Solder had wetting action like melted butter. Not sure why but I loved it. Maybe was the alloy or the flux.

 

[Roland68]

The original Wonder Solder had wetting action like melted butter. Not sure why but I loved it. Maybe was the alloy or the flux.

In my opinion, Wonder Solder is a bit of a rip-off at 10 times the price, so it fits the audiophile ideal. The good flowability and lower melting point come at the cost of poorer mechanical quality and poorer electrical properties due to the lack of Cu. Presumably Sn with a low Ag content and possibly Bi and/or In.
Instead of 50 grams, you get 500 grams of high-quality solder with Ag and Cu.

Ah, yes, but don't we have to use "special" solder? ;-)

That's easy. Just use "silver" solder. It usually is like 0.5% silver or something, surely that must improve conductivity TREMENDOUSLY. That's what they say!

Good electrical connections can be achieved with solder containing 3-4% Ag and 0.5-0.7% Cu (balance % Sn).
Solder with a lower Ag content is more difficult to solder; a cheaper compromise is solder containing 0.3-1% Ag and 0.5-0.7% Cu (balance % Sn).
Even cheaper is solder containing 0.3% Cu (balance % Sn). It provides a good electrical connection but still solders well.

Solder with 4% Cu and 0.5-1% Ag (balance % Sn) is better, providing a better mechanical and electrical connection but significantly more difficult to solder due to its higher melting point. A good, powerful soldering station and experience are required, and increased soldering tip wear occurs.

All industry standards, by the way.

However, soldering is always a compromise.
A good screw connection with crimped strands or a direct crimp are always preferable, but the connectors for these are difficult to obtain.

 

[Sal1950]

What, not even Nordost Odin 2 <https://hifiplus.com/articles/nordost-odin-2-cables/>? (Joke).

To think I bought a few issues of that mag years ago...

LOL, and the beat goes on.
In the July issue of Stereophile Martin Colloms wrote another one of his nutty wire reviews on the Kimber Carbon Series.
This end of the Hi Fi world was silly enough when they talked able cables that actually carried sound but the expansion into power
cables has really taken the audiophools into complete insanity.

Kimber Kable Carbon Series speaker cable and interconnect, PK10 Palladian power cable | Stereophile.com

Photos by Chuck Francis For thoughts about cables generally and reviewing methodology, see Martin Colloms's essay "Colloms on Cables."

www.stereophile.com

 

[Ken1951]

LOL, and the beat goes on.
In the July issue of Stereophile Martin Colloms wrote another one of his nutty wire reviews on the Kimber Carbon Series.
This end of the Hi Fi world was silly enough when they talked able cables that actually carried sound but the expansion into power
cables has really taken the audiophools into complete insanity.

Kimber Kable Carbon Series speaker cable and interconnect, PK10 Palladian power cable | Stereophile.com

Photos by Chuck Francis For thoughts about cables generally and reviewing methodology, see Martin Colloms's essay "Colloms on Cables."

www.stereophile.com

I read over this and have the following question: Just what kind of drugs are these folks using? Truly coo-coo for cocoa puffs land.

 

[Ropeburn]

In my opinion, Wonder Solder is a bit of a rip-off at 10 times the price, so it fits the audiophile ideal. The good flowability and lower melting point come at the cost of poorer mechanical quality and poorer electrical properties due to the lack of Cu. Presumably Sn with a low Ag content and possibly Bi and/or In.
Instead of 50 grams, you get 500 grams of high-quality solder with Ag and Cu.



Good electrical connections can be achieved with solder containing 3-4% Ag and 0.5-0.7% Cu (balance % Sn).
Solder with a lower Ag content is more difficult to solder; a cheaper compromise is solder containing 0.3-1% Ag and 0.5-0.7% Cu (balance % Sn).
Even cheaper is solder containing 0.3% Cu (balance % Sn). It provides a good electrical connection but still solders well.

Solder with 4% Cu and 0.5-1% Ag (balance % Sn) is better, providing a better mechanical and electrical connection but significantly more difficult to solder due to its higher melting point. A good, powerful soldering station and experience are required, and increased soldering tip wear occurs.

All industry standards, by the way.

However, soldering is always a compromise.
A good screw connection with crimped strands or a direct crimp are always preferable, but the connectors for these are difficult to obtain.

Good heavens. Different solder alloys with different conductivity? And that's relevant exactly how much on a connection that 1) has a huge contact area compared to screwing and crimping and 2) has a distance of less than 1mm of solder between the two joined conductors?

 

[egellings]

A milli-ohm's difference at most, among the different solder joints-totally inaudible effect when belief filters are disabled.

 

[Taiga]

Apparently, electrons are easily confused and need all the guidance they can get to transport charge from A to B. Not sure how they can get along without our compounded intervention.

 

[egellings]

Apparently, electrons are easily confused and need all the guidance they can get to transport charge from A to B. Not sure how they can get along without our compounded intervention.

My advice about electrons-take two, they're small.

 

[AudioSceptic]

I read over this and have the following question: Just what kind of drugs are these folks using? Truly coo-coo for cocoa puffs land.

It's bad enough that there is no genuine, verifiable, testing, but *even if* there really is an audible difference, how is it possible to charge so much for such a product? We are truly into jewellery pricing here (pure silver is around US$1200/kg).

 

[teched58]

Apparently, electrons are easily confused and need all the guidance they can get to transport charge from A to B. Not sure how they can get along without our compounded intervention.

You have to coddle your electrons cause otherwise they might spend too much time in other parts of the multiverse, disappearing entirely from the expensive cable for petaseconds at a time.

 

[Ropeburn]

You have to coddle your electrons cause otherwise they might spend too much time in other parts of the multiverse, disappearing entirely from the expensive cable for petaseconds at a time.

That's the bloody amateur electron trainer speaking out of you. My electrons are thoroughly trained and obey like dogs. I often send them on travel adventures to see the world and learn new techniques on how to make a better sound, and they always come back like homing pigeons. Only last week I sent them to Mongolia. They learned a lot, and any throat singing sounds way more authentic now.

Take good care of your electrons, and give them opportunity to learn and grow. Totally worth it! Happy and skilled electrons, there's nothing better.

 

[pablolie]

I read over this and have the following question: Just what kind of drugs are these folks using? Truly coo-coo for cocoa puffs land.

Only excuse I can think of is they need last minute fillers for the mag before it goes into print, plus they need to cater some to the less rational readers... although I think the Absolute Sound -which make Stereophile look like PNAS- is owned by the same published and they should keep such things there, I think...

 

[AudioSceptic]

You have to coddle your electrons cause otherwise they might spend too much time in other parts of the multiverse, disappearing entirely from the expensive cable for petaseconds at a time.

Of course, you mean pico or femto, or maybe it doesn't matter in the multiverse where time becomes meaningless. ;-)

'Rick and Morty' anyone?

 

[Crook]

For me DIY is always the way to go. 50cm Sommer Albedo / Amphenol DIY for £30 vs €123 to buy direct from manufacturer. It's a no brainer, get the iron out.
Also a shout out for the KabelDirekt brand on Amazon. Cheap price and really nicely made, with great feel / flexibility.
I only went with Sommer for the green colour (described as British understatement LOL), but in the end the cables are no better than the KabelDirekt ones.

 

[Roland68]

Good heavens. Different solder alloys with different conductivity? And that's relevant exactly how much on a connection that 1) has a huge contact area compared to screwing and crimping and 2) has a distance of less than 1mm of solder between the two joined conductors?

A milli-ohm's difference at most, among the different solder joints-totally inaudible effect when belief filters are disabled.

You don't have a larger contact area, that's a common misconception. The contact area can't be larger than the surface of the conductor, or rather, the stranded wire; anything else would be a physical miracle. For a conductor with a diameter of 0.5 mm/0.2 mm² and a length of 5 mm, typical dimensions for soldering RCA connectors and audio cables, you have a surface area of approximately 1 mm².
In addition, tin has a resistance 10 times higher than copper.

The often very low-resistance connection in a good solder joint is achieved by the diffusion effect of the copper. This is supported by the copper content in the solder. The silver content serves more to improve solderability and lower melting temperature. Only with hard solder and a high silver content can you achieve better conductivity (processing temperature 700-900°C).

A soldered connection is always inferior to a crimp connection, both in terms of power handling and resistance. With our high-energy products, for example, with a cross-section of 2.5 mm², a connection soldered with hard solder (55% Ag) will unsolder within minutes, while a crimped connection lasts several thousand hours.
A normal soldered connection lasts 1-2 seconds here.
This is only due to the different contact resistances of the individual connections.

Especially with small-signal cables, I think it's important to have a low-resistance solder joint, but especially solder joints with as equal a contact resistance as possible across all contacts.
I've had some supposedly professionally soldered cables here that had a resistance of several hundred milliohms to several ohms, and each solder joint was different.

High-quality solder costs less than 3 cents per solder joint. I don't think it makes a difference in sound if the soldering is well done, but it does make a difference in quality.
And saving a maximum of 12 cents on a set of stereo audio cables with cheap solder is a bit silly when we spend X or XX €/$ on cables and connectors and XX-XXXX on devices and speakers.
But ultimately, this is only of interest to users who make their own cables.

 

[teched58]

Of course, you mean pico or femto, or maybe it doesn't matter in the multiverse where time becomes meaningless. ;-)

'Rick and Morty' anyone?

To get pico or femto you have to buy cables that have passed the Stereophile Golden Ear reviewers' "it's the most expensive" test. With cheaper cables, the electrons are in one of those other universes for the entire second side of "Live Peace In Toronto 1969."

 

[Ropeburn]

What if you listen to electronic music? The electrons will recognise that this is the sole work of their brethren. Will they take sides and rebel?

 

[Mantra]

hi
I would love to read some tests between cables amp -> speakers (cheap cables like in this thread)
is there one on this forum ?
maybe a battle of audio cables amp -> speakers like amazon (very good cables and cheap)
i know only KabelDirekt
i can't find them