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Battle of RCA Cables: Mogami, Amazon, Monoprice

ahofer

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Kunchur's "work" in audio is incredibly shoddy.
I’m not a statistician, but that table on p. 7 sayes “underpowered” study. A lot more people got 2 or 3 out of 3 than you might expect, so, interesting, but not very convincing.

I liked the first part of this paragraph, though. Not so sure about the “extraordinary capabilities of the ear”. I suspect the editor might have crossed out “ear” and substituted “brain”.

If two audio configurations are audibly distinguishable, then physical differences between their signals must necessarily exist. However, measuring them and interpreting their relevance for audio performance is challenging because of the difficulties in matching the extraordinary capabilities of the ear, and because of our incomplete understanding of auditory neurophysiology.
 

SIY

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I’m not a statistician, but that table on p. 7 sayes “underpowered” study. A lot more people got 2 or 3 out of 3 than you might expect, so, interesting, but not very convincing.
Especially given his very light mention of controls and his handwaving about "double blind," which he then never mentions again. My analogy to Targ and Puthoff in another thread is, I think, an apt one.

In earlier "work," he made the amateur error of equating sample rate with time resolution, which certainly suggests that he's dealing in areas where his understanding is poor (or another alternative which I would prefer not to believe). The fact that he still extensively references dishonest fools like van Maanan and articles in Stereophile does not enhance his credibility.
 

Blumlein 88

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So in Kunchur's latest test, he played 5 minutes and 40 seconds, waited 40 seconds and played over 5 minutes 40 seconds of music again. The testee then was to choose which version each trial was based upon a subjective description given to each interconnect in use. Each segment was always different and known to subjects, but they had to decide if they heard an A/B or a B/A presentation.

Interconnect A: Subjective frequency extremes are
emphasized. Piano is more noticeable and better
matched/balanced with the violin. Violin is more detailed,
allowing hearing the change in bow direction. Sound may
be dry or edgy.

Interconnect B: Subjective midrange is emphasized. Violin
may seem more dominant than the piano, and a touch softer
and fuller.

I did see a complaint that he used a recording with very low SNR of perhaps barely 40 db. And as already mentioned one version is over RCA and one over XLR interconnects. I don't see much else to it, and it is an interesting result. Though one wonders about his use of a noisy recording.
 

Ralferator

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I don't need to define the word professional. It's anywhere one would be making money by using that cable. Gravitating to "studio" is such a small small aspect of cable usage in professional uses for audio. Your call to authority was rather weak ..... and your need for me to define "professional" purely argumentative without purpose.

I am regularly swapping equipment in and out either for personal enjoyment and/or test/demonstration with audio buddies. Then there are purely the esthetics. Large investment in room, equipment, etc. I enjoy it looking nice even though mainly hidden.

Esthetics for audio cables - omg. Many many DJs and musicians, even people earning 10 or 100 times as much as you or me with their profession use cheap cables for professional use - and guess what - it works. I know one of them personally who is a well known musician and was even making sound tracks for hollywood movies. Of course it might not be good enough for an audiophile "connaisseur", who choses the power cord by color and can hear if it was assembled in the new moon.
Don't understand me wrong - you can have fun with your hobby - but don't tell me that a cheap cinch cable can't be used professionally. It's simply not true!
 

audio2design

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Esthetics for audio cables - omg. Many many DJs and musicians, even people earning 10 or 100 times as much as you or me with their profession use cheap cables for professional use - and guess what - it works. I know one of them personally who is a well known musician and was even making sound tracks for hollywood movies. Of course it might not be good enough for an audiophile "connaisseur", who choses the power cord by color and can hear if it was assembled in the new moon.
Don't understand me wrong - you can have fun with your hobby - but don't tell me that a cheap cinch cable can't be used professionally. It's simply not true!

I don't think you have the first clue what professional DJs (not the wedding type), or musicians (who don't generally manage the gear) or anyone in the professional music and recording industry uses. You are just being argumentative (and ignorant w.r.t. my position) in some ill targeted attempt at what? ... trying to look good with the ASR buds?

People who work professionally in audio use pretty much exactly the same stuff I do. Mogami is the biggest by far. Pro Co is popular, Canare, Klotz, and a host of others are up there. Performance, mainly w.r.t. proper shielding, no issues with noise/microphonics in some sensitive microphone applications, and some will swear by minor sonic differences, probably only because of excessively long runs, but other than that, almost exclusively due to reliability, which I raised from my VERY FIRST POST YOU RESPONDED TO and which I have reiterated in every single post since. These cables are only expensive compared to perhaps Dollar Store RCA's and Amazon Basics/Monoprice, but when the cost of a concert delay, or studio time, or session musician time, or staff time is taking into account, it makes 0 sense to spend any less. No, those low cost cables are NOT built to the same quality levels. The connectors are weaker, the connections are poorer/less grippy, the shields are not as good, the strain relief is not as good, wire gauges is often smaller (plays into ground loop voltage differentials), the soldering (if soldered) is poorer, the crimping is not as good, and last, the QC is not as good.

For me, as stated (how many times), I often and pulling equipment out, putting other equipment in, etc. My time is valuable. It is not worth it to me to save $5, $10, or $20, on a cable that is going to fail quicker. If I spend an hour tracing one cable, there goes a whole loom of cheap cables in cost. What's the point? As to aesthetics, I have a significant investment in my room and my equipment. I don't feel even a bit of remorse spending extra, small in comparison to everything else, on aesthetic aspects. I once spent about $300-350 on 3 power cables. Peanuts by audiophile standards, huge in comparison to $5 typical AC cords, or ever $10-15 shielded AC cords. Why? Because they were build exactly to my specifications, the exact length I wanted them, with the right angle connectors I wanted (in the direction I wanted them), and the color I wanted them too. When I considered the component cost and time, I couldn't have made them myself that cheap. I am under no illusions they make my system sound better, but they do make it look better. I don't have $10 floor mats in my car either.
 

franspambot

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I don't think you have the first clue what professional DJs (not the wedding type), or musicians (who don't generally manage the gear) or anyone in the professional music and recording industry uses. You are just being argumentative (and ignorant w.r.t. my position) in some ill targeted attempt at what? ... trying to look good with the ASR buds?

People who work professionally in audio use pretty much exactly the same stuff I do. Mogami is the biggest by far. Pro Co is popular, Canare, Klotz, and a host of others are up there. Performance, mainly w.r.t. proper shielding, no issues with noise/microphonics in some sensitive microphone applications, and some will swear by minor sonic differences, probably only because of excessively long runs, but other than that, almost exclusively due to reliability, which I raised from my VERY FIRST POST YOU RESPONDED TO and which I have reiterated in every single post since. These cables are only expensive compared to perhaps Dollar Store RCA's and Amazon Basics/Monoprice, but when the cost of a concert delay, or studio time, or session musician time, or staff time is taking into account, it makes 0 sense to spend any less. No, those low cost cables are NOT built to the same quality levels. The connectors are weaker, the connections are poorer/less grippy, the shields are not as good, the strain relief is not as good, wire gauges is often smaller (plays into ground loop voltage differentials), the soldering (if soldered) is poorer, the crimping is not as good, and last, the QC is not as good.

For me, as stated (how many times), I often and pulling equipment out, putting other equipment in, etc. My time is valuable. It is not worth it to me to save $5, $10, or $20, on a cable that is going to fail quicker. If I spend an hour tracing one cable, there goes a whole loom of cheap cables in cost. What's the point? As to aesthetics, I have a significant investment in my room and my equipment. I don't feel even a bit of remorse spending extra, small in comparison to everything else, on aesthetic aspects. I once spent about $300-350 on 3 power cables. Peanuts by audiophile standards, huge in comparison to $5 typical AC cords, or ever $10-15 shielded AC cords. Why? Because they were build exactly to my specifications, the exact length I wanted them, with the right angle connectors I wanted (in the direction I wanted them), and the color I wanted them too. When I considered the component cost and time, I couldn't have made them myself that cheap. I am under no illusions they make my system sound better, but they do make it look better. I don't have $10 floor mats in my car either.
Why are you losing your mind discussing cables??? Maybe log off, grab a beer, and reprioritize where your energy is spent?
 

Lambda

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Here the Pros use a lot of Cordial or Sommer


But mostly only with Neutrik vs Amphenol connectors
Big Rental Company order there Cabels often custom. Color markings indicating length is common and Company name printed on the cable
as well as velcro straps.

And XLR cables as often chosen compromised so they also work with DMX and digital signals.
 

audio2design

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Well thanks for clarifying that some people need robust cables and that you like twiddling with them. Great contribution to such a basic topic. What would we do without heroes like you?

Go play with your Nak. Some of us have matured and aren't trying to recover our youth (with cassette tapes of all things). I see you have not.
 

Killingbeans

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I will always have energy for people that "need to be told" ...

On the Internet, on a forum, in a thread.... the "need" is about the same as the ocean "needing" a tablespoon of salt to correct the salinity ;)

But I get it. I also get surges of that feeling, where I think I'm "making things right" and that it justifies my temperament. When I find old threads where I've been engaged in that kind of jousting, it usually seems facepalm-worthy in hindsight.
 

Lambda

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it usually seems facepalm-worthy in hindsight.
duty_calls.png
 

AdamG247

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Gentleman this is an Official Product Review Thread. Keep the banter and off topic arguments to a minimum. Thank you for attention.
 

franspambot

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Still a way better contribution then your. you bring nothing of value to the discussion but chose to discredit user that actually discuss the topic but you seam not to agree with.
Why?
Well, it is shutting down a caustic and petty non-argument, so there's value in what I did, no? More, I never said he was wrong, only that it's too simple of an argument to warrant getting lost in one's feelings. Pros often need robust cables. We all know that. It's even in the marketing. Pros sometimes have to deal with interference. It's obvious when that's an issue. You either have interference or not. Plenty of pros use stock cabling as well. To go off on members like that when the studio experiences they mention are also valid is more about ego and disrespect than anything else.

Anyways I'll go back to playing with my Nak. I don't know what is immature about that. I just want to post some measurements in order to actually contribute something to the site.
 

3rdShift

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Great review, thanks. Amazon Basics cables are my personal favorites as well. Snug, but not stupidly tight connections, soft, flexible cables, inexpensive. And most importantly, as good as any overpriced snake-oil cable.
 

Count Arthur

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One possible issue with cables from Amazon Basics, Monoprice and similar vendors, is that they don't actually manufacture cables. They will have cables made by a third party, likely the one that gives them the lowest price, and have their label put on it. As such, there's no guarantee that any of the cables tested, will be the same as those you will be able to purchase in six months from now.

Whereas Belden, Mogami, Canare, Neutrik, WBT, Ampheon, etc. actually manufacture cables and connectors, so you should get a more consistant finished product if you buy a product made with those components.
 

Ralferator

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I don't think you have the first clue what professional DJs (not the wedding type), or musicians (who don't generally manage the gear) or anyone in the professional music and recording industry uses. You are just being argumentative (and ignorant w.r.t. my position) in some ill targeted attempt at what? ... trying to look good with the ASR buds?

People who work professionally in audio use pretty much exactly the same stuff I do. Mogami is the biggest by far. Pro Co is popular, Canare, Klotz, and a host of others are up there. Performance, mainly w.r.t. proper shielding, no issues with noise/microphonics in some sensitive microphone applications, and some will swear by minor sonic differences, probably only because of excessively long runs, but other than that, almost exclusively due to reliability, which I raised from my VERY FIRST POST YOU RESPONDED TO and which I have reiterated in every single post since. These cables are only expensive compared to perhaps Dollar Store RCA's and Amazon Basics/Monoprice, but when the cost of a concert delay, or studio time, or session musician time, or staff time is taking into account, it makes 0 sense to spend any less. No, those low cost cables are NOT built to the same quality levels. The connectors are weaker, the connections are poorer/less grippy, the shields are not as good, the strain relief is not as good, wire gauges is often smaller (plays into ground loop voltage differentials), the soldering (if soldered) is poorer, the crimping is not as good, and last, the QC is not as good.

For me, as stated (how many times), I often and pulling equipment out, putting other equipment in, etc. My time is valuable. It is not worth it to me to save $5, $10, or $20, on a cable that is going to fail quicker. If I spend an hour tracing one cable, there goes a whole loom of cheap cables in cost. What's the point? As to aesthetics, I have a significant investment in my room and my equipment. I don't feel even a bit of remorse spending extra, small in comparison to everything else, on aesthetic aspects. I once spent about $300-350 on 3 power cables. Peanuts by audiophile standards, huge in comparison to $5 typical AC cords, or ever $10-15 shielded AC cords. Why? Because they were build exactly to my specifications, the exact length I wanted them, with the right angle connectors I wanted (in the direction I wanted them), and the color I wanted them too. When I considered the component cost and time, I couldn't have made them myself that cheap. I am under no illusions they make my system sound better, but they do make it look better. I don't have $10 floor mats in my car either.

I know people working professionally using cheap cables. Believe it or not. But i wonder, if your time is so valuable, why you even write such a long answer.

Like i said before, for professional use better and more reliable cables can make sense. For Hifi - not really. Do you really think you can hear a difference using different power cables? Did you ever make a real blind test? Of course, if you plug and unplug gear every day, it might be that those cheap cables will break faster. But seriously - who else but you does that? I bet 95% of the people here in the forum don't. I don't say you can't have your fun with it, but for most people for Hifi it just doesn't make any difference that you can hear. And if they don't plug and unplug every day a cheap cable will work for 20 years easily.

As i am a musician myself i use mostly jack cables on stage and i use good ones from Sommer Cable, because on stage they need to be reliable. They are the best quality i ever had (had Klotz before) and come with Neutrik (the best) or Hicon connectors (also pretty good). And guess how much i pay? - 22 Euros for a 6m cable. That's a good price. 100 Euros for a 1m cinch cable is fucking expensive. You can get a cordial cinch cable with neutrik connectors for 12,50. That's a good price for a professional cable that is reliable and gets used by professionals around the world. Maybe this Mogami has better connectors and for your use makes sense. But for most people it simply isn't needed to plug and unplug things all the time. In tone studios most things are connected with XLR-cables anyways.

I also know pro musicians (not the wedding type even though that's also professional - it's professional when you earn money with it, no?) who use dirt cheap squier instruments and not the 10 times as expensive Fender. Look at the bass player of Khruangbin for example. (her SX Bass was around 100$ when she got it). And guess what - they sound awesome!

And you listen to them through hifi gear with a power cord that costs more than their guitar and want to tell me about what professionals use.

You need to get off your high horse.
 
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