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Battle of RCA Cables: Mogami, Amazon, Monoprice

xaviescacs

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Maybe we can start to acknowledge Cable can make a difference in noise rejection and test for this... properly
And maybe we start to acknowledge hum and noise is a real problem for some.
I totally agree that cables can makes a difference in some applications and that saying that cables don't matter is not accurate. And there is people here which refuses this general statement and tries to understand properly what's going on. I guess this message is so strong here at ASR just to counter-program all this snake oil cable insanity. The thing is that in the 99% (or 95%, don't really know) of systems cables won't make an audible difference, and that makes this general statement almost true for most applications. It depends on the context of the conversation.

But again, I would first tidy up things before trying to solve it with better cables. Because it's free and will bring other benefits. I don't think they invented the star quad to allow people set up things in the most chaotic way.

In any serious setting, in a lab or in a office, the power cables are separated from the data cables, so they can save money for other applications.
 
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audio2design

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There are two places where cable makes a difference and I don't think anyone would deny it here well some would but that's just ignorance. 1 where there are significant noise sources. However that is fixed by a cable that maybe cost 20 or $30 not 2,000 or 3,000. The other is where the cable is intentionally a tone control.
 
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Ralferator

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What's the cost of a failed cable in a pro application? You don't get the same quality for 1/10th the price.

I used the cheapest of the cheapest cinch-cables for many years and none ever failed. What's so complicated about soldering two pieces together? Also what pro-application are you talking about? Studio use? Maybe for a Studio it makes sense to invest a little more to make sure, but for Hifi it's just a waste of money.
 

phoenixsong

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I always have the impression that star quad is the analogous of snake oil for informed people. In the Thomann store there are no star quad cables. Cordial and Sommer don't have star quads, as far as I know. That makes hard to believe it's necessary in any reasonable environment. Maybe for precise measurements purposes.
^Sommer does though; and given that Mogami, Canare (also Benchmark), Van Damme, Gotham, Audioblast and others make their own quality star quad cables I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with that ill-informed statement :) Snake oil will be snake oil and what is not will not be, regardless of what manufacturers produce.
Do also view the multiple live measurements made about star quad cables' noise rejection capabilities, it is a real thing
 

coonmanx

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My rule is that if you have money that is burning a hole in your pocket and you want to spend it on very expensive cables then knock yourself out. But don't start in with the unsubstantiated claims. I generally never spend more than $10 to $20 on any given cable and I also have zero brand loyalty. I use what works.
 

xaviescacs

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^Sommer does though; and given that Mogami, Canare (also Benchmark), Van Damme, Gotham, Audioblast and others make their own quality star quad cables
I wasn't aware of that Sommer cable star quad, I looked for it one some time ago and din't find it. Thanks for that. You will agree however that the vast majority of their balanced cables are not star quad.
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply with that ill-informed statement :) Snake oil will be snake oil and what is not will not be, regardless of what manufacturers produce.
What I wanted to say it's quite clear: that there is an unjustified use of star quad when in most application it doesn't make any difference. And who buys star quads? People that understand what all this EM induction concepts and have watched the Benchmark demonstration video, namely, well informed people. :)

And snake oil feels very nice on my skin, it has its properties, it's not just colored water. The question is if its a cure or just a nice placebo that hydrates your skin.

Well, I won't put my life on it, it was just a thought. My feeling is that someone with great reputation, who sells those cables, makes a loosely formal demonstration and everybody starts saying that those cables are a must. Well, I'm exaggerating, but you get my point.
 

Robin L

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All I know is, when I swapped out my old [XLR] microphone cables for Canare Star-Quad, the noise floor dropped a tad. Easy to work with, flexible, makes for fine RCA/RCA line-level stereo pairs from a single cable. I'm not saying it's going to change the sound, but it is cheap and practical for those who roll their own.
 

phoenixsong

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Are you happy you got your opinion that added nothing to the conversation out now? I provided an answer to your question several posts ago and I was very clear about it. Other examples of been provided here to of a benefit or beneficial situation of better designed and manufactured cables.
Wasn't replying to you, must have missed this so-important post of yours which you assume must have been seen by everyone. Whether it is constructive is not for you alone to say either. You don't monopolise this forum, and I'm sure you're capable of being helpful without flexing your ego
 

phoenixsong

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Also on the point of what products are justified and what are not- it totally depends on the users, not what some of you keyboard warriors here think. If elderly people are looking for equipment, does it mean that anything with a frequency extension of 17kHz and beyond is unjustified for them? If somebody listens to music in a less than ideal environment, does it mean that anything with SINAD 85dB and above is unjustified? Why are people saying one thing for cables when they don't for DACs, Amps and such, even when there are measurements backing them? Hypocrisy at its finest, sometimes silence is best
 

audio2design

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Wasn't replying to you, must have missed this so-important post of yours which you assume must have been seen by everyone. Whether it is constructive is not for you alone to say either. You don't monopolise this forum, and I'm sure you're capable of being helpful without flexing your ego

Replied to the wrong post. Apologies I deleted my post.
 

audio2design

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I used the cheapest of the cheapest cinch-cables for many years and none ever failed. What's so complicated about soldering two pieces together? Also what pro-application are you talking about? Studio use? Maybe for a Studio it makes sense to invest a little more to make sure, but for Hifi it's just a waste of money.

Actually solder joints fail all the time in cables because of poor workmanship. If you don't know what pro use is then you are in no position to judge and obviously have no idea what represents "quality". Even for home use, I regularly connect and disconnect stuff. Saving $10 on a cable is not worth my time.
 

Killingbeans

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If elderly people are looking for equipment, does it mean that anything with a frequency extension of 17kHz and beyond is unjustified for them? If somebody listens to music in a less than ideal environment, does it mean that anything with SINAD 85dB and above is unjustified?

Well, I guess the nice feeling of owning something with high performance is one form of justification. But if you are spending x10 or x100 times more money on something you'll actually never be able to benefit from, at least you should be honest to yourself about it.

Why are people saying one thing for cables when they don't for DACs, Amps and such, even when there are measurements backing them? Hypocrisy at its finest, sometimes silence is best

Personally I try to be as consistent in my scepticism as possible. Whether you get perceptual bias from snake-oil claims or overkill technical performance doesn't really matter to me.

Doesn't stop me from talking out of my ass ever so often though :D
 

phoenixsong

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Well, I guess the nice feeling of owning something with high performance is one form of justification. But if you are spending x10 or x100 times more money on something you'll actually never be able to benefit from, at least you should be honest to yourself about it.



Personally I try to be as consistent in my scepticism as possible. Whether you get perceptual bias from snake-oil claims or overkill technical performance doesn't really matter to me.

Doesn't stop me from talking out of my ass ever so often though :D
Yeah my point exactly- some people would benefit from cables that provide extra noise rejection like those of the star quad design, just as people with ideal listening environments and good hearing would benefit from extra SINAD
 

Xii-Nyth

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Does anyone know of a reliable source of Mogami Gold cables in the UK.
Cheers
Kev
might be a little late but I recommend just making your own cables, you can buy mogami's cables without the connectors for cheap, then you get to choose whatever sleeving you want and you can cut them to the perfect length.
 

krabapple

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What's the cost of a failed cable in a pro application? You don't get the same quality for 1/10th the price.


I got the impression that this site was mostly used by, and aimed at, non-pro audio hobbyists, who don't need to 'feel' their cables very often.

Yeah, a pro needs something built like a tank. But the rest of us don't. 1/10th the price for the same audible performance is quite sensible in many setups.
 

krabapple

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Yeah my point exactly- some people would benefit from cables that provide extra noise rejection like those of the star quad design, just as people with ideal listening environments and good hearing would benefit from extra SINAD
Again, the magnitude of SINAD difference is crucial. Simply having 'extra SINAD' isn't. Difference != audible
 

datrumole

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shoutout to redco audio, plenty of great cable and connector options to get your own lengths and cables made up

once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty quick, plan to MF the first one or two :)

honestly, i know a lot of people opt for the larger version, but the Mogami W2528 and Canare LV-61S are stellar cables for most cable runs. i like them significantly more due to their smaller size and flexibility compared to their larger brethren

tack on Rean Neutrik NYS373 and you've got a hell of a cable
 

Ralferator

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Actually solder joints fail all the time in cables because of poor workmanship. If you don't know what pro use is then you are in no position to judge and obviously have no idea what represents "quality". Even for home use, I regularly connect and disconnect stuff. Saving $10 on a cable is not worth my time.

What an arrogant comment. I was asking you if you mean Studio use. If you can't tell me what you mean by pro use (seems to be something else than Studio use then), you don't seem to have a clue yourself what you are talking about. Also this board is mostly about Hifi. If even for Home use you need to regularly connect and disconnect stuff, maybe you should spend your precious time for buying a preamp with more inputs, don't you think?:facepalm: But if you are one of those people who have their fun in plugging and unplugging and trying to hear sound in cables then i don't want to spoil your fun by recommending blind tests. I like listening to music.

By the way - i am a musician myself (Cello and Bass), having recorded myself in tone studios, learned recording in a media school myself, used pro gear before. I am not working in this area, but i have some experience. Of course if you spend 350.000 dollars for a mixing console, you wouldn't buy cheap cables. But that's what i said - quote: "for a Studio it makes sense to invest a little more to make sure"
 
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audio2design

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What an arrogant comment. I was asking you if you mean Studio use. If you can't tell me what you mean by pro use (seems to be something else than Studio use then), you don't seem to have a clue yourself what you are talking about. Also this board is mostly about Hifi. If even for Home use you need to regularly connect and disconnect stuff, maybe you should spend your precious time for buying a preamp with more inputs, don't you think?:facepalm: But if you are one of those people who have their fun in plugging and unplugging and trying to hear sound in cables then i don't want to spoil your fun by recommending blind tests. I like listening to music.

By the way - i am a musician myself (Cello and Bass), having recorded myself in tone studios, learned recording in a media school myself, used pro gear before. I am not working in this area, but i have some experience. Of course if you spend 350.000 dollars for a mixing console, you wouldn't buy cheap cables. But that's what i said - quote: "for a Studio it makes sense to invest a little more to make sure"

I don't need to define the word professional. It's anywhere one would be making money by using that cable. Gravitating to "studio" is such a small small aspect of cable usage in professional uses for audio. Your call to authority was rather weak ..... and your need for me to define "professional" purely argumentative without purpose.

I am regularly swapping equipment in and out either for personal enjoyment and/or test/demonstration with audio buddies. Then there are purely the esthetics. Large investment in room, equipment, etc. I enjoy it looking nice even though mainly hidden.
 
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