Battle of RCA Cables: Mogami, Amazon, Monoprice

[Killingbeans]

To better audio performance.

Nothing more specific? I think a headphone cable would have to carry a pretty insane amount of current for it to become hot enough to show an audible difference in Johnson-Nyquist noise. The headphones would probably melt long before you reach that point. And if they didn't, the SPL would kill you

But yeah, I get that it would be nice to put a nail in that coffin. IMO there's just waaay too many myths on the same level as silver cables. If Amir was to test all of them, he'd be doing nothing but debunking cable risers and other nonsense from now till hell freezes over.

 

[Nango]

Nothing more specific? I think a headphone cable would have to carry a pretty insane amount of current for it to become hot enough to show an audible difference in Johnson-Nyquist noise. The headphones would probably melt long before you reach that point. And if they didn't, the SPL would kill you

But yeah, I get that it would be nice to put a nail in that coffin. IMO there's just waaay too many myths on the same level as silver cables. If Amir was to test all of them, he'd be doing nothing but debunking cable risers and other nonsense from now till hell freezes over.

Better Sinad.

 

[Lambda]

Better Sinad.

Here are the measurements of all the cables. None showed any change in noise spectrum, distortion, etc.

What do you don't understand about this?
The cable made no difference in this test.

 

[Killingbeans]

Better Sinad.

What kind of audible noise and/or distortion do you get from a copper cable?

 

[Nango]

What kind of audible noise and/or distortion do you get from a copper cable?

I don't know. More transients with Ag? I don't know. Let's find out. The atoms and molecules with Ag work totally different under current than with copper so that may translate into more transients.

I have here a pure silver solid core phone cable for 3pin XLR amp and mmcx terminals, if it helps @amirm.

 

[Nango]

What do you don't understand about this?
The cable made no difference in this test.

Was talking about using silver cables not only basic carbon-polluted copper.

 

[Lambda]

Nango​

Something is seriously wrong with your understanding about what Measured here!
Educated yourself before making requests for measurements your obviously not able to interpre anyhow.

One last time extra slowly...

None
showed
any
changes

The cables did not change the signal. at all!

How can a cable do better then not change anything at all?!
It can't!
The ideal perfect cable dose what to the signal? NOTHING.
What changes where measured? NONE.

AKA all the more or less "crappy" cables did PERFECT*.
Whats Less then Nothing? How can you improve on perfect?

You don't make any sense

*in this test and within the resolution of the measurement.

 

[thewas]

Silver has just a 5% lower specific resistivity which can be easily compensated by using a 5% larger cross-section at the much cheaper copper and if not would be usually only audibility relevant at very long and thin loudspeaker cables.

 

[Killingbeans]

I don't know. More transients with Ag? I don't know. Let's find out. The atoms and molecules with Ag work totally different under current than with copper so that may translate into more transients.

Talking about "more transients" doesn't really make sense. Maybe "more clean transient response". The only "perfect" transient response required for an audio signal, translates into a ruler flat frequency response across the audible spectrum at a given volume (correct me if I'm wrong), and the only three things in a cable that can affect the frequency response is resistance, inductance and capacitance. Copper vs. silver does not have anything to do with inductance or capacitance. It's only resistance. Dull old linear(in any practial sense) resistance. No black magic.

There's no point in looking for strengths and weaknesses if they haven't been defined in the first place.

Was talking about using silver cables not only basic carbon-polluted copper.

What makes silver less poluted than copper? Both silver and copper loves to react with all of the crap in the atmosphere.

And here's another bomb: The use of oxygen-free copper in audio products is completely pointless. It has lots of applications in sensitive industrial processes, but the idea of it giving benefits to audio is, IMO, nothing but wishful thinking. It seriously puzzles me how it has become so prevalent.

 

[Rottmannash]

I read this review yesterday but had to come back and comment. @amirm I think you were a little harsh on the Monoprice cables given they seem to perform as well as the others and aren't overly expensive. I take your point about their feel but a headless panther and a "no" recommendation seems a incongruent relative to their performance and value.

... Except for their failure rate.

 

[Doodski]

And here's another bomb: The use of oxygen-free copper in audio products is completely pointless. It has lots of applications in sensitive industrial processes, but the idea of it giving benefits to audio is, IMO, nothing but wishful thinking. It seriously puzzles me how it has become so prevalent.

According to tests, oxygen-free copper also runs cooler than other conductors. It's more resistant to shorts, more durable and long-lasting, and is far less likely to corrode, due to the reduced oxygen content—at least, that's the common wisdom.

While testing a 20 ft strand of 1/0, using the same current we found that CCA holds 30% more heat than OFC. Just using 250a of current (which is way less than what 1/0 is rated at) we observed a temperature of over 100 degrees with the CCA over the 15-minute test while the OFC stayed at 75 degrees.

From a Google Search.

 

[amirm]

I read this review yesterday but had to come back and comment. @amirm I think you were a little harsh on the Monoprice cables given they seem to perform as well as the others and aren't overly expensive. I take your point about their feel but a headless panther and a "no" recommendation seems a incongruent relative to their performance and value.

My recommendations are mine. It means if someone comes to me and ask if they should buy them, what I should say. And that answer is NO because you can get cheap cables that feel and work wonderfully. I explained the full context in the review so no one should be confused as far as what they mean.

 

[amirm]

Excuse me but silver is always said to be way better conductor dur to it's cristalline molecular structure. Silver atoms are all aligned into same direction once under current. This could be the trigger. Let's check it out @amirm.

You buy them, I test them. I am not spending my own money on it.

 

[MaxBuck]

Silver has just a 5% lower specific resistivity which can be easily compensated by using a 5% larger cross-section at the much cheaper copper and if not would be usually only audibility relevant at very long and thin loudspeaker cables.

It just flummoxes me how people believe that the metallic makeup of the conductor can have ANY influence on reproduced audio, outside of the parameters of CLR.

 

[Doodski]

It just flummoxes me how people believe that the metallic makeup of the conductor can have ANY influence on reproduced audio, outside of the parameters of CLR.

I saw the writing on the wall regarding green pens for CDs in that they are snake oil but not for cables. I was under the impression they improved sound too. That was before I studied electronics. It's easy for the layman to make the mistake and follow the snake oil trend.

 

[thewas]

It just flummoxes me how people believe that the metallic makeup of the conductor can have ANY influence on reproduced audio, outside of the parameters of CLR.

Exactly, even more for the laughable low audio frequency band where other phenomena like skin effect play practically no role.

 

[Killingbeans]

According to tests, oxygen-free copper also runs cooler than other conductors. It's more resistant to shorts, more durable and long-lasting, and is far less likely to corrode, due to the reduced oxygen content—at least, that's the common wisdom.

While testing a 20 ft strand of 1/0, using the same current we found that CCA holds 30% more heat than OFC. Just using 250a of current (which is way less than what 1/0 is rated at) we observed a temperature of over 100 degrees with the CCA over the 15-minute test while the OFC stayed at 75 degrees.

From a Google Search.

True. And it's more malleable, so it might have a bit more resilience to mechanical stress.

But can we agree that in terms of "sound quality" it's nonsensical?

 

[Nango]

True. And it's more malleable, so it might have a bit more resilience to mechanical stress.

But can we agree that in terms of "sound quality" it's nonsensical?

"Sound quality" is not a scientific concept, translate it into "sinad" or whatever else that can be measured and the community could agree on.

 

[Doodski]

True. And it's more malleable, so it might have a bit more resilience to mechanical stress.

But can we agree that in terms of "sound quality" it's nonsensical?

Yes, for audio in a equivalent circuit it would simply be a resister.

 

[Lambda]

"Sound quality" is not a scientific concept,

Well maybe what good music is is not.
But here we are taking not about making making music we are talking about music reproduction.

You can very well quantify the "fidelity" "reproduction"
Aka how mush a component in the chain changes the signal. ideally they don't.