Bass tone control... as a low pass?

[alaios]

Hi all, lets assume that your sub does not go that low so it is geneating distortions at very low frequencies.
If someone had a dsp could low pass it. I was wondering if by tuning down the bass in the tone control you can reduce the strain of the driver at those low frequencies.
So in a way that can be thought as a low pass filter. Is my thinking correct? If not what is the bass dial do in the tone control section of a pre amp or integrated amp?

 

[staticV3]

I was wondering if by tuning down the bass in the tone control you can reduce the strain of the driver at those low frequencies.

Sure.

So in a way that can be thought as a low pass filter. Is my thinking correct?

No, it's a very rudimentary way of reducing overall bass levels. A good low cut filter is a lot more precise.

 

[Ropeburn]

If you want to cut the deepest frequencies because your sub can't do it, use a highpass, not a lowpass.

 

[alaios]

Sure.


No, it's a very rudimentary way of reducing overall bass levels. A good low cut filter is a lot more precise.

True so it is a poor man's filter.

 

[alaios]

If you want to cut the deepest frequencies because your sub can't do it, use a highpass, not a lowpass.

right I mixed the terms but still the problem resides to some of us (me actually) that there is no dsp nor a way to set filters. I only have tone control at hand and I want to relax my tiny sub to play below 50ish Hz. I thought turning the bass tone control dial will help a bit

 

[LTig]

only have tone control at hand and I want to relax my tiny sub to play below 50ish Hz.

If this is an active sub I'd expect it to have such a highpass, at least if the sub is vented.

I thought turning the bass tone control dial will help a bit

No, typical bass controls start around 1 kHz which is much too high.

 

[MAB]

right I mixed the terms but still the problem resides to some of us (me actually) that there is no dsp nor a way to set filters. I only have tone control at hand and I want to relax my tiny sub to play below 50ish Hz. I thought turning the bass tone control dial will help a bit

No, it will make more of a mess than help. As @LTig said, most start at 1kHz. Se for instance this post for a typical tone control:

Tone control

Two other pieces of perceived HiFi wisdom were 1. source first - spend disproportionality more on the front end. That is so backward in my experience , unless perhaps we are talking specifically about vinyl playback. 2. Spend 10% of your budget on cables I routinely read and heard these...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here is a comparison of the response of a 12dB/oct crossover at 80Hz (in red, pretty typical starting point for a sub crossover) and a bass tone control set to minimum (in blue):

The tone control is going to attenuate midbass almost as much as the sub frequencies, wipe out lower midrange along the way, and limit attenuation of the deep bass frequencies to -10dB. The resulting response will likely be worse than omitting the sub and listening to your speakers fullrange.

 

[Chrispy]

Hi all, lets assume that your sub does not go that low so it is geneating distortions at very low frequencies.
If someone had a dsp could low pass it. I was wondering if by tuning down the bass in the tone control you can reduce the strain of the driver at those low frequencies.
So in a way that can be thought as a low pass filter. Is my thinking correct? If not what is the bass dial do in the tone control section of a pre amp or integrated amp?

Are you talking an actual subwoofer or a bass driver in a speaker?

 

[alaios]

Are you talking an actual subwoofer or a bass driver in a speaker?

An actual smallsish subwoofer that does not need to exert trying to play 40Hzs. If I could remove such low frequencies that would also remove the need for the driver to exort and create too much distortion

 

[alaios]

If this is an active sub I'd expect it to have such a highpass, at least if the sub is vented.

No, typical bass controls start around 1 kHz which is much too high.

It has a crossover frequency and right now is starting to play around 80Hz and lower. I also want to limit it the sub from trying to play the region below 50Hz or so

 

[raindance]

You are asking for a high pass filter.

 

[alaios]

Are you talking an actual subwoofer or a bass driver in a speaker?

actual sub

 

[alaios]

Can the Wiim equalizer be thought as a poor man's way to achieve what I want?

No, it will make more of a mess than help. As @LTig said, most start at 1kHz. Se for instance this post for a typical tone control:

Tone control

Two other pieces of perceived HiFi wisdom were 1. source first - spend disproportionality more on the front end. That is so backward in my experience , unless perhaps we are talking specifically about vinyl playback. 2. Spend 10% of your budget on cables I routinely read and heard these...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Here is a comparison of the response of a 12dB/oct crossover at 80Hz (in red, pretty typical starting point for a sub crossover) and a bass tone control set to minimum (in blue):
View attachment 423624
The tone control is going to attenuate midbass almost as much as the sub frequencies, wipe out lower midrange along the way, and limit attenuation of the deep bass frequencies to -10dB. The resulting response will likely be worse than omitting the sub and listening to your speakers fullrange.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

You can accomplish the same thing by just reducing the level on the sub’s own gain control. Which would actually be better: Reducing the bass tone will affect the main speakers as well as the sub. Overall, that isn’t going to sound good.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[No. 5]

@alaios assuming that you are using line level input on your subwoofer, something like this might work. It's only a first order high pass, but it is a high pass, and they are available with other corner frequencies, so you would have some ability to tune it to your liking.

 

[alaios]

@No. 5 thanks. Does it create any other byproducts? Otherwise it looks great solution

 

[raindance]

If you don't know the input impedance of the subwoofer then a passive solution might be challenging. Many subs have very low input impedance and these passive filters are normally designed for a much higher input impedance which completely changes the high pass frequency.

 

[No. 5]

@No. 5 thanks. Does it create any other byproducts? Otherwise it looks great solution

Happy to help! There's high frequency roll-off, but that's not a problem when connecting directly to a subwoofer. And there may be some signal attenuation. I've seen a review or two complain about added noise, but I didn't experience that when I have used them. Just something to be aware of, though.

If you don't know the input impedance of the subwoofer then a passive solution might be challenging. Many subs have very low input impedance and these passive filters are normally designed for a much higher input impedance which completely changes the high pass frequency.

Agreed that it won't go according to plan if the input impedance isn't close to what the passive filter was designed for, but how low is very low? On their website they have the performance effects from 47k down to 10k. Seems like if it's likely on the low side he should just pick up a lower frequency model then assumed if he wants to try these.

 

[Mnyb]

You can create a shelf filter in WiiM with a high Q possibly , the UI shows how it would look ? If you have a WiiM just try ?