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Bargain DAC Suggestions?

andreasmaaan

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All speakers have things wrong with them. What I am more interested in is the proposition that building a budget system isn't just about finding a cheap DAC that works. If that were the case everyone should get a D30 because at $120 it's cheap enough and it works really well.

Not enough time is spent on doing budget systems as a complete concept. I would love to see more discussion of RPI's to learn about these super inexpensive endpoints.

Sure, all speakers have things wrong with them. Although some of these problems result from budget limitations, others result from poor design choices, and yet others result from a desire to deliberately colour the sound (as is the case with these speakers I suspect).

And yes, total system design on a budget is a topic I'd like to see discussed more too.
 

Krunok

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andreasmaaan

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Revel Ultima2. :)

Excellent speakers. I had the original Ultima Studios back when I had more money than I do now. They were good, but going on measurements and design changes the series 2 are much better.
 

Ron Texas

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Sure, all speakers have things wrong with them. Although some of these problems result from budget limitations, others result from poor design choices, and yet others result from a desire to deliberately colour the sound (as is the case with these speakers I suspect).

And yes, total system design on a budget is a topic I'd like to see discussed more too.

I realize you have looked at a frequency response graph of the speakers in question and you don't like what you see. Most speakers don't measure anything like electronics and speaker design, especially with a low price target is difficult. Besides, what special knowledge do you have which qualifies you to look at a frequency response graph and say it's a fact and not an opinion that the design is defective with no claim you have ever listened to them? That is coming down pretty hard. I don't own these speakers and I don't take your remarks personally, but this kind of behavior has already caused me to reduce my involvement in internet forums considerably.
 

andreasmaaan

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I realize you have looked at a frequency response graph of the speakers in question and you don't like what you see. Most speakers don't measure anything like electronics and speaker design, especially with a low price target is difficult. Besides, what special knowledge do you have which qualifies you to look at a frequency response graph and say it's a fact and not an opinion that the design is defective with no claim you have ever listened to them? That is coming down pretty hard. I don't own these speakers and I don't take your remarks personally, but this kind of behavior has already caused me to reduce my involvement in internet forums considerably.

I wasn't trying to say these speakers were defective. I said I suspect that they are deliberately coloured, since the frequency and power response is tilted up by around 6dB at each end of the frequency spectrum in the on-axis response, and this is not compensated for in the off-axis response. This effect is precisely what a "loudness" button does on an old receiver, and is an effect that many people find very pleasing, especially at lower volume levels. This would be viewed as a defect only if the goal is neutrality, but like I said, I don't think that was the goal in this case.

I hope it was also clear that all my statements were merely opinions and not facts. My apologies if it wasn't. However, FWIW my opinions about speakers come from designing them, partly for a living, and from being reasonably up to date with the research on this topic.

I also don't think it's problematic to be critical of a speaker's measurements or design on a public forum. In fact, discussion of a speaker's design or measurements helps us all better understand what a speaker is doing and how, just in the same way we all discuss the design and performance of electronic components on this forum.

I'll try to be more conscious of my tone in future :)
 

andreasmaaan

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Ok, here we go.

Decided to make it a thread on passive speakers only, since with a whole system there are so many variables that the thread is likely to get off-track.
 

Krunok

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A speaker that measures remarkably well at this price point (c. $350/pair) is the Wharfedale Diamond 220 (I've never listened to it).

I did, and they sounded well worth the money to me! :cool:

Edit: @Thomas savage, although we choosed not to pick up a fight on this I'm still wondering why you're so quiet? :D
Btw, when you wake up can you please move this post to the thread @andreasmaaan just opened? :cool:

 

captain paranoia

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Somebody who is jumping in for $1000 and he gets some tiny box and a set of drab bookshelves?

I might suggest that people these days don't want a great big 'hi-fi'; tiny, 'lifestyle' components are very much in vogue. That NAD fits perfectly into that market.

My surprise at that article is that it was only just published, and the reviewer claims that neither he, nor any of his colleagues had tried a Chromecast Audio device. I guess they've been busy over the last three years with esoteric, and very expensive audiophoolery...
 

JJB70

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Creative are selling their SoundBlaster E5 here for £99 with free shipping. OK, it's not the newest model and it is bulky for a portable but at £99 it offers a lot and you're buying from an established name with the usual statutory protection etc. A friend of mine just bought one, he basically threw a Chord Mojo away in disgust recently when the battery died after 18 months and refuses to pay what they've asked to fit a new battery. His position now is that if I spend £99 on a DAC/Amp and it dies in a couple of years I've lost a lot less than the £400 I spent on the Mojo. I think he bought it with low(-ish) expectations but he now speaks highly of the E5 and tells me if he'd just used his ears and ignored magazine reviews he would've bought the E5 to start with and saved ££££££'s. I know Creative are often looked down on by audiophiles because of their PC soundcard and gaming heritage, but this might be a good choice for somebody dipping a toe into the waters of DAC/amps.
 

Veri

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Creative are selling their SoundBlaster E5 here for £99 with free shipping. [...]

For £99 I'd much rather buy a Fiio like the Q1 Amir already measured. Soundblaster was always a mass consumer brand I would not expect much in terms of fidelity honestly..
 

JJB70

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For £99 I'd much rather buy a Fiio like the Q1 Amir already measured. Soundblaster was always a mass consumer brand I would not expect much in terms of fidelity honestly..

That assumes that a mass consumer brand and good sound quality are incompatible. I wouldn't agree with such an assumption. I have found quite a few superb products from mass consumer brands such as Sony, these days Sennheiser are effectively a mass consumer brand but few would deny their pedigree of making superb headphones.

On the E5 I was quite impressed by its sound reproduction. The DAC seems pretty transparent and the headphone amp powerful. Which, really is what these products are meant to be about. I also like Fiio but there is a lot to be said for buying the Creative option in terms of peace of mind if it is £99.

My only criticism of it is that it is quite bulky, but I really don't see the fact that it is made by a consumer brand with a heritage in PC sound cards and gaming as being relevant to whether or not it is a good product. My mate had the well respected audiophile Chord Mojo and it died after 18 months with Chord asking for half the current purchase cost to change the battery.
 

Veri

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I should have clarified that I myself did not think highly of the sound blaster products I used when I was young. That's from going by memory though.

And yes I would never buy a Mojo due its battery problems which are documented all over the web by now.. for shame.
 

maxxevv

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I should have clarified that I myself did not think highly of the sound blaster products I used when I was young. That's from going by memory though.

And yes I would never buy a Mojo due its battery problems which are documented all over the web by now.. for shame.

Can't one buy a direct replacement and do the replacing themselves? As its probably a commercial off the shelf battery by all guesses. Possible ??
 

Veri

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Can't one buy a direct replacement and do the replacing themselves? As its probably a commercial off the shelf battery by all guesses. Possible ??

Yes it is possible. End of this thread has links and advice. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37976-chord-mojo-fails-after-18-months-battery-warranty-defects-liability /

But really if you buy a device upwards of 4̶0̶0̶ $500! I would not expect to be repairing the battery myself the likes a $40 electric toothbrush would require. Especially within 18 months. This just reeks of intended redundancy.
 
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JJB70

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Yes it is possible. End of this thread has links and advice. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37976-chord-mojo-fails-after-18-months-battery-warranty-defects-liability /

But really if you buy a device upwards of 4̶0̶0̶ $500! I would not expect to be repairing the battery myself the likes a $40 electric toothbrush would require. Especially within 18 months. This just reeks of intended redundancy.

I think the thing that has damaged Chord is less that they have had an issue with the Mojo battery and more how they have handled it. Manufacturers do have problems sometimes, maybe they shouldn't but they do. Some manufacturers respond well and stand by their customers and put things right. When they couldn't care less, or blame the customer or just refuse to acknowledge anything is when it does real lasting damage. Chord are a premium high end supplier charging prices to match, I would expect premium service. Based on what I have seen of their response to the Mojo issue I wouldn't be in a hurry to buy anything from them. Conversely I had an issue with a Cannondale bike frame and the way they handled it (immediate no quibble replacement) actually gave me more confidence to buy another bike from them.
 

Vince

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Hi All,

I am new here and in the market for a bargain portable DAC to use it with my mobile phone (OnePlus 3) and Headphone (1More Triple).

Should I get the Audirect Beam (ES9118) or Sabaj Da3 (Dual SABRE9018Q2C)?

Thanks a lot in advance for your advice
 
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