Balanced DAC without MQA - best performers?

[Protomartyrdom]

Looking to get a great performing balanced DAC for desktop without MQA support, but unfortunately the review index does not have MQA as a tag to facilitate filtering. The last couple of initially impressive DACs (D90SE, X16) are marred by MQA support, so now I'm looking for alternatives from brands that do not sell MQA gear. This immediately eliminates anything by Topping, Gustard, SMSL, iFi and some others. Is there a comprehensive list of well performing gear by brands that do not support MQA?
PS: I'm aware of Schiit's stance on MQA, I commend them for it, I would get a Modius even, but I'm in EU and the EU Schiit site seems to be permanently OOS on all items (does everything instantly sell out the moment it comes in or do they never get any stock in the first place?).

 

[Blumlein 88]

RME would be one. Also Okto Research comes to mind. Both have been reviewed by Amir here.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...version-2-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.13379/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/okto-dac8-stereo-dac-review.14705/

Also might consider the RME Babyface if you don't need remote control. It is a recording interface, but also a pretty good DAC.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...yface-pro-fs-portable-interface-review.12313/

 

[Protomartyrdom]

Thank you for the fast reply. Okto isn't taking orders at the moment, but the ADI-2 DAC is very enticing with the EQ and crossfeed capabilities. Both scratch my budget ceiling of ~1K, any other contenders around the ~500 mark or lower?

 

[Trell]

Thank you for the fast reply. Okto isn't taking orders at the moment, but the ADI-2 DAC is very enticing with the EQ and crossfeed capabilities. Both scratch my budget ceiling of ~1K, any other contenders around the ~500 mark or lower?

There is MOTU M2 and MOTU M4 that are both reviewed here and have balanced output but only USB as digital in.

 

[sailor2005]

Looking to get a great performing balanced DAC for desktop without MQA support, but unfortunately the review index does not have MQA as a tag to facilitate filtering. The last couple of initially impressive DACs (D90SE, X16) are marred by MQA support, so now I'm looking for alternatives from brands that do not sell MQA gear. This immediately eliminates anything by Topping, Gustard, SMSL, iFi and some others. Is there a comprehensive list of well performing gear by brands that do not support MQA?
PS: I'm aware of Schiit's stance on MQA, I commend them for it, I would get a Modius even, but I'm in EU and the EU Schiit site seems to be permanently OOS on all items (does everything instantly sell out the moment it comes in or do they never get any stock in the first place?).

Not all Topping DACs have MQA like the D30Pro for example. Was tested by Amir and has balanced outputs. It's like $399. Soncoz makes a couple of DACs with balanced out, affordable and no MQA.

 

[Mountain Goat]

There is MOTU M2 and MOTU M4 that are both reviewed here and have balanced output but only USB as digital in.

MOTU Ultralite mk5 has a variety of I/O, digital and otherwise for around $600. Uses the ES9026PRO 8-channel DAC chip that should be a step above the M4's ES9016S.

https://motu.com/en-us/products/gen5/ultralite-mk5/

@amirm has mine for measurement. Don't know what the schedule is on measurements, but it's been a few weeks, so soonish? Hopefully it measures well , but I need it for the music functionality more than inaudible sonic differences. I'm having it tested it so we've got a more complete list of interface measurements.

 

[mdsimon2]

Looking to get a great performing balanced DAC for desktop without MQA support, but unfortunately the review index does not have MQA as a tag to facilitate filtering. The last couple of initially impressive DACs (D90SE, X16) are marred by MQA support, so now I'm looking for alternatives from brands that do not sell MQA gear. This immediately eliminates anything by Topping, Gustard, SMSL, iFi and some others. Is there a comprehensive list of well performing gear by brands that do not support MQA?
PS: I'm aware of Schiit's stance on MQA, I commend them for it, I would get a Modius even, but I'm in EU and the EU Schiit site seems to be permanently OOS on all items (does everything instantly sell out the moment it comes in or do they never get any stock in the first place?).

Just FYI on the Modius it seems like they always show as backordered but at least earlier in the year were delivering them consistent with when the order was placed. Not sure if this is still the same situation currently given the it uses an AKM DAC but it took about a month for mine to come. Also have a Motu M4 which is a great option if you only need USB input, otherwise the Modius is great if you need more input functionality.

Michael

 

[JSmith]

marred by MQA support

How is a product "marred" if it offers support for a particular codec?

I'd be worrying about many other factors apart from this as the only metric of choice.



JSmith

 

[tmtomh]

How is a product "marred" if it offers support for a particular codec?

I'd be worrying about many other factors apart from this as the only metric of choice.



JSmith

There are a couple of ways one could consider an MQA DAC "marred":

1. If MQA capability cannot be turned off in the DAC's settings, then whenever you play MQA content through the DAC, it will forcibly use MQA's poorly designed reconstruction filters, allowing unnecessary aliasing of ultrasonic frequencies into the audible band. This is a form of distortion, and it can also indirectly create additional distortion by adding to intermodulation distortion. (If MQA capability can be switched off, then you can use software to perform the "first unfold" of MQA content, which gets you the highest quality MQA is capable of - and then you can apply your reconstruction filter of choice to that when it goes through the DAC.)
2. If the DAC does not allow the user to choose among reconstruction filters, then the MQA filter is probably used for all content, MQA or not. So in that case the problem in scenario 1 above applies for all content, MQA or not.

 

[JohnYang1997]

There are a couple of ways one could consider an MQA DAC "marred":

1. If MQA capability cannot be turned off in the DAC's settings, then whenever you play MQA content through the DAC, it will forcibly use MQA's poorly designed reconstruction filters, allowing unnecessary aliasing of ultrasonic frequencies into the audible band. This is a form of distortion, and it can also indirectly create additional distortion by adding to intermodulation distortion. (If MQA capability can be switched off, then you can use software to perform the "first unfold" of MQA content, which gets you the highest quality MQA is capable of - and then you can apply your reconstruction filter of choice to that when it goes through the DAC.)
2. If the DAC does not allow the user to choose among reconstruction filtesr, then the MQA filter is probably used for all content, MQA or not. So in that case the problem in scenario 1 above applies for all content, MQA or not.

And measurements of D90se showed otherwise.
Some implementations of MQA does upsample everything first but it can be avoided.

 

[tmtomh]

And measurements of D90se showed otherwise.
Some implementations of MQA does upsample everything first but it can be avoided.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be unclear - I know the D90se doesn't have these issues. For one thing, the filters are selectable, which is great!

 

[dmac6419]

Looking to get a great performing balanced DAC for desktop without MQA support, but unfortunately the review index does not have MQA as a tag to facilitate filtering. The last couple of initially impressive DACs (D90SE, X16) are marred by MQA support, so now I'm looking for alternatives from brands that do not sell MQA gear. This immediately eliminates anything by Topping, Gustard, SMSL, iFi and some others. Is there a comprehensive list of well performing gear by brands that do not support MQA?
PS: I'm aware of Schiit's stance on MQA, I commend them for it, I would get a Modius even, but I'm in EU and the EU Schiit site seems to be permanently OOS on all items (does everything instantly sell out the moment it comes in or do they never get any stock in the first place?).

Get a topping DX7 pro,besides all the brands you mentioned has non mqa dacs.

 

[Protomartyrdom]

How is a product "marred" if it offers support for a particular codec?

I'd be worrying about many other factors apart from this as the only metric of choice.



JSmith

I obviously do care about other factors, but I do not want to support MQA nor to encourage manufacturers to support MQA by giving them my hard earned money. I would expect ASR community to be less tolerant of such snakeoil.

 

[Protomartyrdom]

Get a topping DX7 pro,besides all the brands you mentioned has non mqa dacs.

Don't want to reward brands that are in bed with MQA.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Don't want to reward brands that are in bed with MQA.

huh

 

[deafenears]

Singxer SDA-6 ?

Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (the non-MQA version) ?

 

[Human Bass]

Topping D30pro

 

[jmaz87]

I just went through this too. Ended up landing on Geshelli Labs (JNOG2) since they are here in Florida and appear to have great products and support. USA made is just icing on the cake. also love that their DAC has 2 optical/coax and a usb. no more optical switch for me!

while I don't feel as strongly about MQA, I'm also not interested in paying its premium when I don't plan to use it even though I use tidal.

I had actually considered both the D30Pro and D90SE ( I own 2 E30/L30 stacks and love them) but they were both pretty expensive even with the extra features they offer. Topping is getting more expensive which is fine but make their offerings less competitive. maybe that will change with time.

 

[heavyheadbanger]

Denafrips Ares II seems to be the best choice DAC under $1k without MQA - $750
Then Topping D30 Pro for $400

 

[jmaz87]

Best choice for what? Maybe compared to other R2R designs... doesn't seem to perform any better than cheaper D/S DACs. I considered this too along with Gustard but support in the US is non existent. At least I can go to Apos for stuff like Topping/smsl.

I'm sure Ares II is a great dac but I've read several saying it isn't purely transparent. maybe its more 'fun' or 'musical' or 'smoother' I just prefer not to add color to signal @dac stage since it leaves less options down stream. not gonna pretend to be an expert just think value and support are in question.

D30pro would steal the show if it was 300-350 but IMHO 400 missed the mark.. same as d90se... only offering MQA version is a HUGE miss and the main reason I landed on Geshelli apart from aforementioned support. I get that it costs more to make 2 products but forcing consumers to pay for MQA isn't really a solution either... especially something as devisive

I personally love my E30/L30 stacks for headphone/IEM's but my active monitors developed a nasty ground loop with E30 USB input so I'm trying a balanced setup for this reason alone. with all these super well measuring budget stacks around its hard to justify going balanced in this price range.

thoughts?