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Balanced DAC - Audible Difference Likely?

MaxBuck

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OK, I have a Schiit Modi 3+ worked into my new system (got it essentially as a disposable part to test some components before the remaining parts - KEF R11s and Bluesound Node - arrive). My question is whether I could expect a good balanced DAC like the Schiit Modius or Gustard X16 to yield an audible improvement, or whether the little Modi is likely to be just as good from a sound quality perspective. Any knowledgeable thoughts on this one?
 

dc655321

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If there are no audible common-mode noise issues in your system then no, I would not expect a balanced signal to sound any different than a single-ended signal (assuming level matched comparisons).

Voltage is voltage. There is just slightly more of it and it's potentially cleaner with a differential signal...
 

Lupin

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Balanced connection between DAC and AMP is often recommended because it's an effective measure against ground loops.
I have not seen any real proof that balanced does something for the actual SQ besides being louder by default due the higher voltage.

Unlike popular audiophile opinions I don't believe balanced will do anything for the actual SQ. Use balanced because it breaks ground loops, use balanced because it can provide that little extra power do not insist on balanced because it will sound better.. IMHO
 
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MaxBuck

MaxBuck

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Interesting; thanks! I thought the SQ improved when I replaced the single-ended connection between my Adcom GFP-750 preamp and NAD C298 power amp with the XLRs, but that certainly wasn't a blind comparison and therefore is unreliable.
 

aasearles

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An interesting question, and I'm in the process of upgrading to balanced (I/O) right now to hear what the differences are. My biggest draw is the extra voltage potential with balanced. But I read at Rod Elliot's site that there is potential for degradation of CMRR (noise rejection ratio) due to phase shift in "common circuits" using cheaper op-amps. I have to wonder if this could also impact SQ? Assuming better gear uses hi-fi grade op-amps, it's probably not a real concern, but the added complexity of balanced makes me appreciate the simplicity of single-ended.

Source: https://sound-au.com/articles/balanced-io.htm
 

earlevel

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It's fundamentally about need. If +4 dBu balanced was always audibly better than -10 dBV unbalanced, we wouldn't have expensive audiophile gear with RCA connectors, like we've had for decades. Yes, we get green markers for CDs, and speaker cable risers, yet unbalanced is fine—that tells you all you need to know.

Recording studios often route signals over significant distances (control room to live room), and with a lot of AC cords and other noise-producers. And when a mic gets to the mic preamp, it may go to an optical compressor/limiter, then an outboard EQ, then a FET compressor, then a mixing console. From there, after passing through filters that may give additional gain to some frequencies, and out to a bus compressor, and out to the active front monitors over another cable run.

Now...imagine hearing some hum or static. And trying to find at which cable run the noise might have crept in. While the client is sitting there watching his bank account drain. :facepalm: In other words, whether you can hear it or not, your studio needs to stack the odds towards the signal making it through all those interconnects intact. Balanced helps that bet.

But even in a studio, many connections are unbalanced. Most keyboards, for instance. But if you plug one in and get noise, you'll try another cbale—because you know the rest of the chain is reliable. (Historically, most gear would be semi-permanently wired to a patch bay, where they would get routed. That way, you're always dealing with jacks and plugs that were meant for a lot of abuse, and you'd just buff any tarnish off occasionally.)

I'm in my office + home studio, a lot of things are balanced, a lot aren't. And it's more important some places than others. I have a Topping DAC for listening at the computer, feeding a pair of iLoud MTMs over 1-meter balanced cables. Because the Topping has balanced outputs, and the monitors have balanced inputs, and because I have a stock of Neutrik XLR connectors and Mogami cable—plus, it would be more work to cable it from the RCA outs of the Topping to the phone jack ins of the MTMs (I have the plugs, but they're harder to put on star-quad cable than XLRs). So, I like having the balanced outs, but audibly there will be no difference, short of the unlikely need of an absurdly long cable run to another room.
 
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