Balanced Audio Question....

[Kinglizard]

Ok you have several options:

• if you're headphones have two inouts for cables (one for each ear) you should be able to get a 4.4mm cable
• if your headphones have one input, but it has at least 4-poles (if the plug going into your headphones is a 2.5/3.5/4.4/6.35mm headphone jack, this means it needs to have at least 3 black rings on it). You can then get an appropriate cable or adapter to 4.4mm
• you can modify your headphones to satisfy one of the above if you really want. It won't be easy and could ruin the sound if they're closed back and you make an inappropriately sealed hole (you have to make sure that at no point do the wires from the two drivers connect to each other).(I guess it might be possible the headphone does have a 4-pole port, but uses a 3-pole plug that shorts 2 of the poles together, you'd have to open the headphones up to see if the port has 4 non-shorted wires going to it)
• otherwise you have to use the 3.5mm port of your DAP.

(I'm not sure if you cn you use a 4.4mm to 3-pole adapter, that uses the ground of the 4.4mm and only the positive (or negative) L and R ones, and leaving the negative (or positive) ones unconnected? I know that shorting an L- to R- (or L+ to R+) may break your amp though, so definitely don't try an adapter that does that).

Yes, my headphones do have.....

• if you're headphones have two inouts for cables (one for each ear) you should be able to get a 4.4mm cable

 

[Electrifying]

Would

4.4mm to Dual 3.5mm Cable be a balanced cable?​

 

[Yasuo]

One might say there's no such thing as balanced headphones... at most you have "dual" amplification (with some of the benefits of that brings) but pretty much that's it.

 

[IsaacOscar]

Would

4.4mm to Dual 3.5mm Cable be a balanced cable?​

Yup!

 

[IsaacOscar]

Depends on the Amplifier.

Usually, you get 50% higher volume, but otherwise no change in sound (except slightly more hiss, so usually bad idea for IEMs).

More hiss, what's the reason for that, (other than louder volume also increasing the volume of the hiss)? (personally I haven't gotten any hiss from either balanced or single-ended headphone/earphone cables, only speaker connections.)

 

[IsaacOscar]

Yes, my headphones do have.....

• if you're headphones have two inouts for cables (one for each ear) you should be able to get a 4.4mm cable

I'm not sure exactly which crossfade version you have, but it looks like they all take a standard 3.5mm plug, so this cable should work:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008765478874.html

The important thing to check is that the part of the cables that actually inserts into your headphones (i.e. not including any plastic bits that sit outside the headphones themselves) look the same shape asyour stock cable. In particular, some cables use a plastic locking mechanisms (so part of the plastic actually goes inside the headphone and locks in place), e.g.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007543304086.html

And some have extra long metal bits, e.g.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000773447016.html

Note: ignore any descriptions/marketing that tries to explain what they sound like: any balanced cable will sound identical (unless it is broken, or has a DSP/EQ/amp or some other circuitry in it). In particular, more expensive does not mean better sound! (of course it could look nicer, be longer, feel nicer, etc.).

 

[Zee]

I have a related question:

I own a classic Beyer DT990 (600 Ohm) headphone that I bought about 40 years ago when I was in university.
It still is in a very good shape and sounds great when proper EQ is applied.
It currently has a 6,3 mm jack plug attached that I like to replace by a 4.4 pentaconn. The (original spiral) cable is 'balanced' (it has 4 conductors, 2 for left, 2 for right), so no problem here to convert it to a balanced 4.4 mm.

So far I have not found a 'large' 4.4. pentaconn connector that gives enough space inside to mount the original cable and have proper strain relief.
All connectors I have at home (and find online) are tiny and don't offer enough space inside for the cable of the DT990. Of course I can replace the cable, but as the cable is good (and for sentimental reasons) I rather stick to the original.

Does anyone know where to buy a large 4.4mm pentaconn plug?

 

[IsaacOscar]

I have a related question:

I own a classic Beyer DT990 (600 Ohm) headphone that I bought about 40 years ago when I was in university.
It still is in a very good shape and sounds great when proper EQ is applied.
It currently has a 6,3 mm jack plug attached that I like to replace by a 4.4 pentaconn. The (original spiral) cable is 'balanced' (it has 4 conductors, 2 for left, 2 for right), so no problem here to convert it to a balanced 4.4 mm.

So far I have not found a 'large' 4.4. pentaconn connector that gives enough space inside to mount the original cable and have proper strain relief.
All connectors I have at home (and find online) are tiny and don't offer enough space inside for the cable of the DT990. Of course I can replace the cable, but as the cable is good (and for sentimental reasons) I rather stick to the original.

Does anyone know where to buy a large 4.4mm pentaconn plug?

I'm a bit confused, maybe some pictures will help?

(By "plug" you mean the male/pointy end right? And not the female/socket/hole?)

 

[Zee]

I'm a bit confused, maybe some pictures will help?

(By "plug" you mean the male/pointy end right? And not the female/socket/hole?)

Correct.
I want to cut the (male) 6.3mm jack from the cable of the DT990 and replace it with a 4.4mm pentaconn.
The reason is that my headphone amp (dongle) only has the option to connect headphones via a 4.4mm pentaconn or a 3.5mm jack.
I currently use an adapter 6.3>3.5 mm, but this not very handy as it makes the entire combination of dongle+adapter+6.3mm very large and fragile.
Replacing the 6.3 male jack of the DT990 with a 4.4mm plug would therefor be ideal.

 

[IsaacOscar]

Correct.
I want to cut the (male) 6.3mm jack from the cable of the DT990 and replace it with a 4.4mm pentaconn.

Oh woops, I completely failed to comprehend that somehow (now that I reread your post, it's quite clear).

TLDR: you want something like this, but the sleave part bigger?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000453454000.html

Do you need it wider, or longer?

What about a right angle one?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005629846052.html

Or an XLR (which is bigger) and then use an adapter?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007377052479.html

 

[staticV3]

More hiss, what's the reason for that

Double the number of Opamps in the signal chain, since the signal now consists of Hot and Cold.

 

[Kinglizard]

More hiss, what's the reason for that, (other than louder volume also increasing the volume of the hiss)? (personally I haven't gotten any hiss from either balanced or single-ended headphone/earphone cables, only speaker connections.)

I'm not sure exactly which crossfade version you have, but it looks like they all take a standard 3.5mm plug, so this cable should work:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008765478874.html

The important thing to check is that the part of the cables that actually inserts into your headphones (i.e. not including any plastic bits that sit outside the headphones themselves) look the same shape asyour stock cable. In particular, some cables use a plastic locking mechanisms (so part of the plastic actually goes inside the headphone and locks in place), e.g.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007543304086.html

And some have extra long metal bits, e.g.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000773447016.html

Note: ignore any descriptions/marketing that tries to explain what they sound like: any balanced cable will sound identical (unless it is broken, or has a DSP/EQ/amp or some other circuitry in it). In particular, more expensive does not mean better sound! (of course it could look nicer, be longer, feel nicer, etc.).

Thank you very much for all your knowledge...You answered my question after hours of searching on the net.

 

[solderdude]

Correct.
I want to cut the (male) 6.3mm jack from the cable of the DT990 and replace it with a 4.4mm pentaconn.
The reason is that my headphone amp (dongle) only has the option to connect headphones via a 4.4mm pentaconn or a 3.5mm jack.
I currently use an adapter 6.3>3.5 mm, but this not very handy as it makes the entire combination of dongle+adapter+6.3mm very large and fragile.
Replacing the 6.3 male jack of the DT990 with a 4.4mm plug would therefor be ideal.

Cut the 6.3mm plug.
Solder the wires to a short and thinner round cable that fits in the 4.4mm plug.
Solder the other end to the connector.
(they are a biatch to solder and to create strain relief you can put some heatshrink tubing over the plug and cable when the plug does not have strain relief.

A fully wired 4.4mm Pentaconn output can be used with both balanced and single ended (3.5/6.3 TRS) headphones with a suitable cable/connector.
This was the hole idea behind the 4.4mm connector.

It is small enough for portable gear.
It makes contact as good as a 6.3mm plug does and is sturdier than the 2.5mm and 3.5mm TR(R)S.
It can be used for shielded stereo balanced and single ended interlinks as well as balanced and single-ended headphones.

Unfortunately not all manufacturers with a 4.4mm output have it fully wired.

 

[Zee]

Cut the 6.3mm plug.
Solder the wires to a short and thinner round cable that fits in the 4.4mm plug.
Solder the other end to the connector.
(they are a biatch to solder and to create strain relief you can put some heatshrink tubing over the plug and cable when the plug does not have strain relief.

A fully wired 4.4mm Pentaconn output can be used with both balanced and single ended (3.5/6.3 TRS) headphones with a suitable cable/connector.
This was the hole idea behind the 4.4mm connector.

It is small enough for portable gear.
It makes contact as good as a 6.3mm plug does and is sturdier than the 2.5mm and 3.5mm TR(R)S.
It can be used for shielded stereo balanced and single ended interlinks as well as balanced and single-ended headphones.

Unfortunately not all manufacturers with a 4.4mm output have it fully wired.

Thanks Solderdude.
These pentaconn plugs are indeed not the most solder friendly plugs.
I have a Sennheiser HD800S that has a much larger pentaconn (mainly a longer cap that covers the solder points). I was hoping to find such a plug, as for most pentaconns the cap is about the same lengh as the part of the plug that you put into your amp. The cap of the HD800s plug is much longer and therefore gives more options for strain relief and soldering.

 

[john61ct]

I've been very happy with custom adapter cables ordered from Hart Audio. Great quality materials, masterful construction quality, value pricing and they look great.

I love their 4-pin mini-XLR interconnect standard

IMO best generic "Rosetta stone" also for extension cables

Interconnects

All interconnect designs terminate to a male 4-pin mini-XLR, compatible with all of our Headphone Cable designs. Pair your headphone cable with the interconnect(s) that matches your source and you're all set.

hartaudiocables.com

James is da man, very helpful [email protected]