Balanced Audio Question....

[Electrifying]

I just bought a DAP player that has a 4.4mm balanced audio input for headphones but my headphones only have a 3.5mm input....
I was wondering what i need for the 4.4mm input to work?
It won't work with a regular 3.5mm cable and a adopters..
I was wondering what I need, thanks.

 

[Electrifying]

I just bought a DAP player that has a 4.4mm balanced audio input for headphones but my headphones only have a 3.5mm input....
I was wondering what i need for the 4.4mm input to work?
It won't work with a regular 3.5mm cable and a adopters..
I was wondering what I need, thanks.

Do I need a 4-pole (TRRS) 3.5 cable with a 4.4mm adapter?
Whatever that is......
I'm a newbie to this kinda stuff.

 

[staticV3]

You can use 4.4mm headphone outputs only with headphones that have removable and replaceable headphone cables.

Buy a native 4.4mm replacement cable for your headphone and you can plug it in.

Don't use adapters or converters, they can kill the Amp.

 

[Electrifying]

You can use 4.4mm headphone outputs only with headphones that have removable and replaceable headphone cables.

Buy a native 4.4mm replacement cable for your headphone and you can plug it in.

Don't use adapters or converters, they can kill the Amp.

That would mean I would have to buy new headphones because the ones I have now only have a 3.5mm hole for the cable.

 

[staticV3]

That would mean I would have to buy new headphones because the ones I have now only have a 3.5mm hole for the cable.

Which headphones do you have?

 

[Kinglizard]

V-moda crossovers

 

[DVDdoug]

Or get another DAP. ...It's pretty unusual to have ONLY a balanced output.
go

FIY - The only advantage to a balanced headphone connection is that it can potentially go louder. But there are other ways to as loud, or even louder, with a regular headphone connection.

 

[Mr. Swordfish]

Balanced analog audio connections are great for complicated professional applications. It offers little or no advantage for home use unless there's something strange going on (you live next to a 50,000 watt transmitter, your house is over 1000' long, you're connecting a bunch of devices in different rooms with different AC power)

The headphone transducer only cares about the voltage difference between the "hot" and "other" - whether the "other" is 0 volts or minus whatever-the-hot-is volts doesn't matter.

As DVDDoug says, it's possible that you might get more voltage difference via balanced, but there are other ways to accomplish that (e.g. any pro 1000watt/channel amp that will fry any pair of headphones without being balanced)

Perhaps someone who works in engineering instead of marketing could explain why balanced headphones are a thing.

 

[Kinglizard]

It's $1000+ Cayin N7+ DAP that has inputs for 3.5mm cable and it has another input for 4.4mm balanced...
When I plug my headphones into the 3.5mm input I can crank the volume to 100 percent and not get the full potential of my headphones... And it still isn't very loud.

 

[DVDdoug]

Sorry you spent so much money and aren't satisfied... If there is an audio/video store you can visit, it would probably be worthwhile to try some different headphones with your player.

Note that with headphones there is almost no correlation between sound quality and price so you may not to spend more (and you might be happier with something less expensive).

Different headphones sound different and they have different sensitivity (loudness). If you can find a spec for your headphones you can compare to alternatives.

You can also compare the output voltage of your DAP to alternatives.

Everything reviewed here is measured so you can compare if you can find specs for your existing equipment.

The balanced output is likely double the voltage which is 6dB louder. That's very-noticeably louder but not tremendously louder.

The DAP (or phone, or whatever) doesn't normally have any particular "sound" except for any EQ applied. So it comes down to features, battery time, and "loudness", etc.

For headphones, see Harman Curve and Understanding Headphone Measurements (video)

 

[Kinglizard]

Sorry you spent so much money and aren't satisfied... If there is an audio/video store you can visit, it would probably be worthwhile to try some different headphones with your player.

Note that with headphones there is almost no correlation between sound quality and price so you may not to spend more (and you might be happier with something less expensive).

Different headphones sound different and they have different sensitivity (loudness). If you can find a spec for your headphones you can compare to alternatives.

You can also compare the output voltage of your DAP to alternatives.

Everything reviewed here is measured so you can compare if you can find specs for your existing equipment.

The balanced output is likely double the voltage which is 6dB louder. That's very-noticeably louder but not tremendously louder.

The DAP (or phone, or whatever) doesn't normally have any particular "sound" except for any EQ applied. So it comes down to features, battery time, and "loudness", etc.

For headphones, see Harman Curve and Understanding Headphone Measurements (video)

Great idea,....Or else I could return my DAP and get something cheaper.

 

[pablolie]

...

Perhaps someone who works in engineering instead of marketing could explain why balanced headphones are a thing.

Good luck getting someone in marketing to explain true product differentiation ever. I am an engineer (not in audio though), and while -like you said perfectly well- I know there are applications where it's required, I could not care less about that in my home environment. The measurements of home audio equipment on this very site there is zero advantage when it comes to measurements in a typical environment.

PS: BTW, it's also an engineer's job to make sure marketing doesn't go out with claims that discredit your product. Ownership is a thing in everything we do.

 

[Kinglizard]

My stand alone cell phone actually sounds better than my $1000+ DAP player I just bought from Bloom Audio....
I will mess around with settings and stuff but if I can't make it louder and sound better I'm going to return it...
It's the Cayin N7+..

 

[IsaacOscar]

I just bought a DAP player that has a 4.4mm balanced audio input for headphones but my headphones only have a 3.5mm input....
I was wondering what i need for the 4.4mm input to work?
It won't work with a regular 3.5mm cable and a adopters..
I was wondering what I need, thanks.

Ok you have several options:

• if you're headphones have two inouts for cables (one for each ear) you should be able to get a 4.4mm cable
• if your headphones have one input, but it has at least 4-poles (if the plug going into your headphones is a 2.5/3.5/4.4/6.35mm headphone jack, this means it needs to have at least 3 black rings on it). You can then get an appropriate cable or adapter to 4.4mm
• you can modify your headphones to satisfy one of the above if you really want. It won't be easy and could ruin the sound if they're closed back and you make an inappropriately sealed hole (you have to make sure that at no point do the wires from the two drivers connect to each other).(I guess it might be possible the headphone does have a 4-pole port, but uses a 3-pole plug that shorts 2 of the poles together, you'd have to open the headphones up to see if the port has 4 non-shorted wires going to it)
• otherwise you have to use the 3.5mm port of your DAP.

(I'm not sure if you cn you use a 4.4mm to 3-pole adapter, that uses the ground of the 4.4mm and only the positive (or negative) L and R ones, and leaving the negative (or positive) ones unconnected? I know that shorting an L- to R- (or L+ to R+) may break your amp though, so definitely don't try an adapter that does that).

 

[IsaacOscar]

V-moda crossovers

I think you mean "crossfade" (also there are multiple versions of that headphone).
From photos it appears that this has a 3-pole 3.5mm plug, so it won't work with balanced/4.4mm.

(Also are you the same person as @Electrifying, or you just have the same question?)

 

[IsaacOscar]

Or get another DAP. ...It's pretty unusual to have ONLY a balanced output.
go

FIY - The only advantage to a balanced headphone connection is that it can potentially go louder. But there are other ways to as loud, or even louder, with a regular headphone connection.

When buying a dac/amp, I did the maths and it was significantly cheaper to get one that had a 4.4mm output together with a 4.4mm headphone cable, than buying a 3.5mm dac/amp that provided the same power.
(of course if your headphones don't support a balanced cable, than you would need to buy a more powerful amp).

 

[Kinglizard]

I think you mean "crossfade" (also there are multiple versions of that headphone).
From photos it appears that this has a 3-pole 3.5mm plug, so it won't work with balanced/4.4mm.

(Also are you the same person as @Electrifying, or you just have the same question?)

Yea, i meant crossfade

 

[IsaacOscar]

Perhaps someone who works in engineering instead of marketing could explain why balanced headphones are a thing.

I It's an engineering thing as it's easier to construct a balanced amp circuit with a gievn amount of power than a single ended one (most amps with both provide up to 4 times the power on the balanced output, i.e. it will be louder). There are many explanations online.
(also theoretically better sound quality by causing less of the sound for one channel leaking into the other, but it's unlikely audible).

 

[Kinglizard]

Does a balanced 4.4mm cable really make that much difference in sound and loudness?

 

[staticV3]

Does a balanced 4.4mm cable really make that much difference in sound and loudness?

Depends on the Amplifier.

Usually, you get 50% higher volume, but otherwise no change in sound (except slightly more hiss, so usually bad idea for IEMs).